24p workflow revisited (again) at DVinfo.net

Paul Nixon · May 28th, 2009, 04:02 PM

Sorry to resurrect the horse, but something isn't set quite right in my workflow.

I have Liquid (doesn't understand HV30 24p mode)
Edius Neo (supposed to understand it but doesn't seem to all the time)
Sony Vegas Pro 9 trial (just started with it - seems to have the same issue as Liquid)

In Liquid (and Sony), when I capture a 24p clip from my HV30, I get 4 good clean frames, then a repeated frame, then 4 more good clean frames.

In Neo, I get 1 good clean frame followed by one frame that looks like two frames put together, followed by another good clean frame, and so on.

Neo has 2 24p settings, 23.98p over 60i and 23.98pA over 60i. I have tried both.

When I place the clips on the timeline, the properties say they are 29.97 clips with upper field first. If I change this to Progressive, I get interlace artifacts.

Somehow when I changed the frame rate to 23.98, applied, then changed it back to 29.97, I got rid of the weird every-other-frame thing, but now my voice sounds slow regardless of whether I keep it at 23.98 or put it to 29.97.

I don't get it. Am I doing something wrong?

Paul Nixon · May 28th, 2009, 05:35 PM

Something seems screwed up - I did a recapture and this time Neo worked just fine. Oh well...

Jack Zhang · May 29th, 2009, 12:49 AM

You need to understand that the cadence for the 24p breaks everytime the start/stop button is pressed since it is recording over 60i. Cineform NEO should be able to solve this by doing real-time pulldown removal and detecting scenes and cadence breaks.

Paul Nixon · May 29th, 2009, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Zhang

You need to understand that the cadence for the 24p breaks everytime the start/stop button is pressed since it is recording over 60i. Cineform NEO should be able to solve this by doing real-time pulldown removal and detecting scenes and cadence breaks.

I may be doing something wrong (wouldn't be the first time), as this is what's happening:

I shot about 5+ minutes of various footage around the house in 24p. I captured in Neo and it created 17 clips. Some of these I'm able to "fix" while others I am not.

For example, the 6th clip is of my daughter on her scooter. If I change the frame rate to 23.98 then the weird motion effect goes away.

The very next clip is of my dog turning her head and walking. I have been unable to get rid of the weird motion effect on this clip. When I apply my "fix" I get the "four good, solid frames, then a repeated frame" that I get in Liquid.

So it *seems* Neo isn't doing the pull-down properly on each individual clip it captures, or I'm not telling it to do quite what I think I am.

My own confusion may be adding to the problem, too. When I capture a 24p over 60i clip, and I tell Neo that's what I'm wanting to do, I expect Neo to do the real-time pull-down and give me a 24p clip, 24 frames per second progressive. I do not expect to click on clip properties and see 29.97 frames per second, top field first (as in interlaced).

Paul Nixon · May 29th, 2009, 08:09 PM

Okay, I might have discovered something -

If I allow Neo to just capture and split the clips, then the results are mixed at best.

Even if I capture individual clips, the results are mixed - I captured the same clip three times with the same result. Then I went to the Capture/Generic HDV Input and, even though 23.98p over 60i was selected, I clicked on it again. This time the clip came in looking good. It still says 29.97 - I don't know why. However, the final output says 24fps.

May 28th, 2009, 04:02 PM	#1
Paul Nixon Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Mesa, AZ Posts: 141	24p workflow revisited (again) Sorry to resurrect the horse, but something isn't set quite right in my workflow. I have Liquid (doesn't understand HV30 24p mode) Edius Neo (supposed to understand it but doesn't seem to all the time) Sony Vegas Pro 9 trial (just started with it - seems to have the same issue as Liquid) In Liquid (and Sony), when I capture a 24p clip from my HV30, I get 4 good clean frames, then a repeated frame, then 4 more good clean frames. In Neo, I get 1 good clean frame followed by one frame that looks like two frames put together, followed by another good clean frame, and so on. Neo has 2 24p settings, 23.98p over 60i and 23.98pA over 60i. I have tried both. When I place the clips on the timeline, the properties say they are 29.97 clips with upper field first. If I change this to Progressive, I get interlace artifacts. Somehow when I changed the frame rate to 23.98, applied, then changed it back to 29.97, I got rid of the weird every-other-frame thing, but now my voice sounds slow regardless of whether I keep it at 23.98 or put it to 29.97. I don't get it. Am I doing something wrong?

May 28th, 2009, 05:35 PM	#2
Paul Nixon Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Mesa, AZ Posts: 141	Something seems screwed up - I did a recapture and this time Neo worked just fine. Oh well...

May 29th, 2009, 12:49 AM	#3
Jack Zhang Inner Circle Join Date: May 2005 Location: Burnaby, BC, Canada Posts: 3,053	You need to understand that the cadence for the 24p breaks everytime the start/stop button is pressed since it is recording over 60i. Cineform NEO should be able to solve this by doing real-time pulldown removal and detecting scenes and cadence breaks.

May 29th, 2009, 08:09 PM	#5
Paul Nixon Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Mesa, AZ Posts: 141	Okay, I might have discovered something - If I allow Neo to just capture and split the clips, then the results are mixed at best. Even if I capture individual clips, the results are mixed - I captured the same clip three times with the same result. Then I went to the Capture/Generic HDV Input and, even though 23.98p over 60i was selected, I clicked on it again. This time the clip came in looking good. It still says 29.97 - I don't know why. However, the final output says 24fps.