PC SPEC for Canon HG10 using AVCHD

Brian Boyko · July 21st, 2009, 10:52 PM

Hey.

First off, you've got two options - convert the footage to Cineform and keep the P4 system, or get a better system and edit natively.

I use an HG10 at work, and I edit in Sony Vegas on a Core 2 Duo 2.4Ghz system with 2GB RAM. It plays smoothly when I'm viewing it in a window on "Preview" even after applying color correction effects; it's jittery when I go full-screen or view as full-resolution "best" rendering quality. I'm fine with it and converting to an intermediate codec would probably just slow me down.

At home I use an HG20, and I edit in Sony Vegas on a Core 2 Quad 2.4Ghz system with 4GB RAM.

Em Watson · July 22nd, 2009, 05:38 AM

bryan -so do you think this setup would play 10 minutes home movies avchd files ?

AMD Phenom™ X4 9650 Quad Core Processor

ATI Radeon™ HD4550 DirectX® 10.1 graphic card with 512 MB dedicated memory onboard and integrated HDMI-/DVI-interface

640 GB hard disk

4 GB 4096 MB DDR2 Dual Channel SDRAM with 800 MHz 64 Bit1

---only i'm desperate to see the avchd files, this setup is on cheap offer nr me and waited so long !....

Perrone Ford · July 22nd, 2009, 05:58 AM

Em,

I can't cleanly preview AVCHD with effects on my 8-core system with 3 drives and 8GB of RAM. Does that help answer your question?

There are a number of ways to solve the problem. You can work with proxy files. You can purchase Cineform, you can transcode the footage into something more computer friendly. But at this time, the i7 systems are doing better than anything else in editing AVCHD which is why I suggested that path to you.

Em Watson · July 22nd, 2009, 06:46 AM

now i don't know what the fook to do !...two people saying different things

perrone please explain 'You can work with proxy files. You can purchase Cineform, you can transcode the footage into something more computer friendly...'

I'm just so desperate to see these videos, been waiting one year becos they're in wretched (i think it is) avchd format. Just phoned COREL who said this spec would be more than enough! going to speak to CANON when i can get hold of them.

??????????????

Perrone Ford · July 22nd, 2009, 06:57 AM

Em,

Ok, let's back this up.

If all you want to do is LOOK at the footage, then the machine you specified is going to be just fine. If however, you want to do the editing that most people on this site are trying to do, then the machine you specified is going to be a bit underpowered.

There is nothing wrong with AVCHD. It does EXACTLY what it is designed to do. Which is to capture very nice HD images in cameras with minimal artifacting, on small hardware. It is exceptional at that. What it is NOT good at, is being placed on the timeline of a video editing program, and being edited. It was not built for that purpose, and it is totally unsuitable for this purpose.

However, most consumers are unaware of most professional workflows, or refuse to use them, so we see complaint after complaint about how bad AVCHD is to edit. This comes as no surprise to any professional who understand that the format was never designed for that.

To smoothly edit HD footage captured in AVCHD, it is usually necessary to convert (transcode) that footage into a format that was designed to edit with. These formats tend to make far larger files, but offer a great many advantages. One of these formats is offered by a company called Cineform. They do a very nice job, but the solution tends to be a bit pricey. There are other editing formats that do a good job also. Another solution is to use a process called proxy editing. This is where you make a low resolution copy of your footage, edit that, and then at the very end of editing, before you create your final video, you substitute the original footage back in so you get excellent results. This is a very popular workflow with professionals who have to work with footage that makes AVCHD look like a cakewalk.

Again, if all you want to do is LOOK at the footage you shot with your camera, buy the machine you were thinking of. It will work just fine. But when it comes to doing anything more than the most basic editing of that footage, the machine will be slow unless you use one of the other methods outlined here.

Em Watson · July 22nd, 2009, 09:09 AM

aha.. now am starting to get the gist of things thanks a lot perrone..yes i see this site is more for professionals - which I'm not !

So, in conclusion, do you think I could at least join up about 25 short snippets of avchd so that they would run together and copy it to a DVD ? I'm going to try and use Corel VideoStudio X2 Pro. for this, it was recomm. to me by the seller of the HG10.

some other questions about what you said ?

' it is usually necessary to convert (transcode) that footage into a format that was designed to edit with...' 'There are other editing formats that do a good job also. '
what format(s) do you mean here ?

The proxy editing sounds really good - in your opinion do you think I would have any chance of doing this using the Corel software ?

Many many thanks !

Perrone Ford · July 22nd, 2009, 09:31 AM

Em,

Yes, I think you can certainly join some snippets and convert that for use on a DVD. Many people do it with less hardware than you are looking to buy. The problem comes in when combine many layers, or look to do heavy color correction AND you want that file to play back smoothly. Most machines just aren't fast enough to do that. It will play back stutttery. If you understand that, then you'll be ok.

I am not a fan of Corel anything. And I think if you look around this forums and others like it, you'll see the same few names coming up for editors in the $75-$200 price range. There is a reason for that. Vegas Movie Studio is VERY full featured, at a reasonable price. There are others. I hesitate to recommend anything because I don't have direct experience with these programs as they don't do some things that are crucial to my work. But you can get PLENTY pf help here with recommendations.

In terms of what formats to use for editing, there are several, but choose an editor first. Some editors like to convert that footage into something that is particularly easy for them. And that changes editor to editor. So what works in Adobe, doesn't work in Final Cut, and Canopus might want something yet different again. Cineform is popular because it works in practically any editor and offers good speed. If you can absorb the few hundred bucks it costs, I generally recommend it.

Proxy editing is common and works in just about any editor. Some even have the feature built in. It has it's drawbacks though. It does take more disk space because you have two full copies. It also demands more time because you need to CREATE that second copy before you begin your work. It is for these two reasons that most consumers simply want to drop on the AVCHD file and go straight to work. Not many people are keen to spend a few hours transcoding BEFORE they sit down to edit their videos. For pro's it's just part of the basic workflow that we're used to.

For those who work with film, first you have to get the film developed. Then you get the film scanned at high resolution, then you convert the high res scans to a lo res proxy. Then you being the work, when done then you substitute in the high res version and create the master, then you output the master to a special file format, then you commit the master back to real film! AVCHD is a walk in the park after all that! :)

Brian Boyko · July 22nd, 2009, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Em Watson

bryan -so do you think this setup would play 10 minutes home movies avchd files ?

AMD Phenom™ X4 9650 Quad Core Processor

ATI Radeon™ HD4550 DirectX® 10.1 graphic card with 512 MB dedicated memory onboard and integrated HDMI-/DVI-interface

640 GB hard disk

4 GB 4096 MB DDR2 Dual Channel SDRAM with 800 MHz 64 Bit1

---only i'm desperate to see the avchd files, this setup is on cheap offer nr me and waited so long !....

Shouldn't be a problem, so long as you preview at decreased resolution. It's different depending on what NLE you use, however.

If you just want to -view- the files, you can always download VLC media player.

David Merrill · July 29th, 2009, 10:08 AM

I have a question regarding this topic.

I have a dual core with CS4 and just started loading MTS files. My question: Even if I purchase Neoscene and use the CineForm avi will it edit in real time? I'm near the bottom of Cineforms specs. It's a good dual core though. E6550, 3 gigs ram.

July 21st, 2009, 10:52 PM	#16
Brian Boyko Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 773	Hey. First off, you've got two options - convert the footage to Cineform and keep the P4 system, or get a better system and edit natively. I use an HG10 at work, and I edit in Sony Vegas on a Core 2 Duo 2.4Ghz system with 2GB RAM. It plays smoothly when I'm viewing it in a window on "Preview" even after applying color correction effects; it's jittery when I go full-screen or view as full-resolution "best" rendering quality. I'm fine with it and converting to an intermediate codec would probably just slow me down. At home I use an HG20, and I edit in Sony Vegas on a Core 2 Quad 2.4Ghz system with 4GB RAM. __________________ Equip: Panny GH1, Canon HG20, Juicedlink, AT897, Sennh. EW/GW100, Zoom H2, Vegas 8.1

July 22nd, 2009, 05:58 AM	#18
Perrone Ford Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Tallahassee, FL Posts: 4,100	Em, I can't cleanly preview AVCHD with effects on my 8-core system with 3 drives and 8GB of RAM. Does that help answer your question? There are a number of ways to solve the problem. You can work with proxy files. You can purchase Cineform, you can transcode the footage into something more computer friendly. But at this time, the i7 systems are doing better than anything else in editing AVCHD which is why I suggested that path to you. __________________ DVX100, PMW-EX1, Canon 550D, FigRig, Dell Octocore, Avid MC4/5, MB Looks, RedCineX, Matrox MX02 mini, GTech RAID, Edirol R-4, Senn. G2 Evo, Countryman, Moles and Lowels.

July 22nd, 2009, 06:57 AM	#20
Perrone Ford Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Tallahassee, FL Posts: 4,100	Em, Ok, let's back this up. If all you want to do is LOOK at the footage, then the machine you specified is going to be just fine. If however, you want to do the editing that most people on this site are trying to do, then the machine you specified is going to be a bit underpowered. There is nothing wrong with AVCHD. It does EXACTLY what it is designed to do. Which is to capture very nice HD images in cameras with minimal artifacting, on small hardware. It is exceptional at that. What it is NOT good at, is being placed on the timeline of a video editing program, and being edited. It was not built for that purpose, and it is totally unsuitable for this purpose. However, most consumers are unaware of most professional workflows, or refuse to use them, so we see complaint after complaint about how bad AVCHD is to edit. This comes as no surprise to any professional who understand that the format was never designed for that. To smoothly edit HD footage captured in AVCHD, it is usually necessary to convert (transcode) that footage into a format that was designed to edit with. These formats tend to make far larger files, but offer a great many advantages. One of these formats is offered by a company called Cineform. They do a very nice job, but the solution tends to be a bit pricey. There are other editing formats that do a good job also. Another solution is to use a process called proxy editing. This is where you make a low resolution copy of your footage, edit that, and then at the very end of editing, before you create your final video, you substitute the original footage back in so you get excellent results. This is a very popular workflow with professionals who have to work with footage that makes AVCHD look like a cakewalk. Again, if all you want to do is LOOK at the footage you shot with your camera, buy the machine you were thinking of. It will work just fine. But when it comes to doing anything more than the most basic editing of that footage, the machine will be slow unless you use one of the other methods outlined here. __________________ DVX100, PMW-EX1, Canon 550D, FigRig, Dell Octocore, Avid MC4/5, MB Looks, RedCineX, Matrox MX02 mini, GTech RAID, Edirol R-4, Senn. G2 Evo, Countryman, Moles and Lowels.

July 22nd, 2009, 09:31 AM	#22
Perrone Ford Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Tallahassee, FL Posts: 4,100	Em, Yes, I think you can certainly join some snippets and convert that for use on a DVD. Many people do it with less hardware than you are looking to buy. The problem comes in when combine many layers, or look to do heavy color correction AND you want that file to play back smoothly. Most machines just aren't fast enough to do that. It will play back stutttery. If you understand that, then you'll be ok. I am not a fan of Corel anything. And I think if you look around this forums and others like it, you'll see the same few names coming up for editors in the $75-$200 price range. There is a reason for that. Vegas Movie Studio is VERY full featured, at a reasonable price. There are others. I hesitate to recommend anything because I don't have direct experience with these programs as they don't do some things that are crucial to my work. But you can get PLENTY pf help here with recommendations. In terms of what formats to use for editing, there are several, but choose an editor first. Some editors like to convert that footage into something that is particularly easy for them. And that changes editor to editor. So what works in Adobe, doesn't work in Final Cut, and Canopus might want something yet different again. Cineform is popular because it works in practically any editor and offers good speed. If you can absorb the few hundred bucks it costs, I generally recommend it. Proxy editing is common and works in just about any editor. Some even have the feature built in. It has it's drawbacks though. It does take more disk space because you have two full copies. It also demands more time because you need to CREATE that second copy before you begin your work. It is for these two reasons that most consumers simply want to drop on the AVCHD file and go straight to work. Not many people are keen to spend a few hours transcoding BEFORE they sit down to edit their videos. For pro's it's just part of the basic workflow that we're used to. For those who work with film, first you have to get the film developed. Then you get the film scanned at high resolution, then you convert the high res scans to a lo res proxy. Then you being the work, when done then you substitute in the high res version and create the master, then you output the master to a special file format, then you commit the master back to real film! AVCHD is a walk in the park after all that! :) __________________ DVX100, PMW-EX1, Canon 550D, FigRig, Dell Octocore, Avid MC4/5, MB Looks, RedCineX, Matrox MX02 mini, GTech RAID, Edirol R-4, Senn. G2 Evo, Countryman, Moles and Lowels.

July 22nd, 2009, 05:38 AM	#17
Em Watson New Boot Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: London, UK Posts: 10	bryan -so do you think this setup would play 10 minutes home movies avchd files ? AMD Phenom™ X4 9650 Quad Core Processor ATI Radeon™ HD4550 DirectX® 10.1 graphic card with 512 MB dedicated memory onboard and integrated HDMI-/DVI-interface 640 GB hard disk 4 GB 4096 MB DDR2 Dual Channel SDRAM with 800 MHz 64 Bit1 ---only i'm desperate to see the avchd files, this setup is on cheap offer nr me and waited so long !....

July 22nd, 2009, 06:46 AM	#19
Em Watson New Boot Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: London, UK Posts: 10	now i don't know what the fook to do !...two people saying different things perrone please explain 'You can work with proxy files. You can purchase Cineform, you can transcode the footage into something more computer friendly...' I'm just so desperate to see these videos, been waiting one year becos they're in wretched (i think it is) avchd format. Just phoned COREL who said this spec would be more than enough! going to speak to CANON when i can get hold of them. ??????????????

July 22nd, 2009, 09:09 AM	#21
Em Watson New Boot Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: London, UK Posts: 10	aha.. now am starting to get the gist of things thanks a lot perrone..yes i see this site is more for professionals - which I'm not ! So, in conclusion, do you think I could at least join up about 25 short snippets of avchd so that they would run together and copy it to a DVD ? I'm going to try and use Corel VideoStudio X2 Pro. for this, it was recomm. to me by the seller of the HG10. some other questions about what you said ? ' it is usually necessary to convert (transcode) that footage into a format that was designed to edit with...' 'There are other editing formats that do a good job also. ' what format(s) do you mean here ? The proxy editing sounds really good - in your opinion do you think I would have any chance of doing this using the Corel software ? Many many thanks !

July 29th, 2009, 10:08 AM	#24
David Merrill Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Los Angeles, Ca. Posts: 91	I have a question regarding this topic. I have a dual core with CS4 and just started loading MTS files. My question: Even if I purchase Neoscene and use the CineForm avi will it edit in real time? I'm near the bottom of Cineforms specs. It's a good dual core though. E6550, 3 gigs ram.