Vixia hf s100 at DVinfo.net

Craig Hollenback · March 2nd, 2009, 07:26 AM

Are there any sites that have reviewed the camera and been able to comment on picture quality vs: and HV30, etc.? We are in immediate need of something like the HV30 but could use the direct to memory card feature of the VIXIA HF S100. I am hoping the wait and double cost will be worth it. It is appealing to get 2 HV30's for the crew for the price of one VIXIA HF S100.
Best, Craig

Buba Kastorski · March 2nd, 2009, 01:45 PM

My s10 is coming next week, will do some shooting and post the results,
but looking at the sample clips on youtube and vimeo that little cam. does an amazing job!

Dave Blackhurst · March 2nd, 2009, 01:47 PM

Craig - there's a link to a Japanese review of the HF-S100 in the AVCHD section of DVi, translations are always interesting, but might give you a early idea or two. It compares the HF-S and the new Sony XR series.

I'd wait if it were me, the new technology should be a good step up from the HV series just because of the improvements in tech over time... whether it's worth the added cost of being the first kid on the block with the new toys... that's up to you!

Steve Rotter · March 5th, 2009, 09:20 AM

hey guys, i'm in the same boat, HV30 or S10 or 100. i guess i can wait...IF it's only a month! hey, what's the difference between the S10 and S100? i just found out about these cams yesterday as i was going to place an order for an HV30. also, with the S10, S100, we have the file format AVCHD to deal with...and some DLEs may not play well. you will need to transcode, etc etc. i love the thought of tapeless for these little guys!! BUT, will also have to be good in lower light.

Buba Kastorski · March 5th, 2009, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Rotter

, what's the difference between the S10 and S100?

The only difference is a 32Gb internal memory on S10, (almost 3 hrs of 24Mb/s), and SDHC record only on S100,
other than that they're like twins.
and another one, $200 :)

Steve Rotter · March 5th, 2009, 03:22 PM

so i guess now i decide between the s10 and HV30. i have no idea!

Michael Jones · March 5th, 2009, 04:14 PM

Im considering either the HF S10 or the HF20.... S10 has the higher quality image/pixels but its like $800 more expensive and im not sure if it's worth it just for filming home movies etc...

The thing thats preventing me from forking out the extra $800 or so for the S10 is apparently the low light shooting isn't as good as the other cheaper models.. but thats not 100% confirmed yet....

Will have to wait a few more weeks fot both models to be fully reviewed i spose....

Craig Hollenback · March 6th, 2009, 06:06 AM

My concern with the tapeless models is the huge file sizes once they are imported. Currently with our Sony EX1, the compression method keeps the files sizes pretty much the same size that they were when shot. Large, but easily managable in FCP. HDV is of cource even smaller. These new AVCHD files are very difficult to manage.
Why I’m Avoiding AVCHD - PaulStamatiou.com

I believe for me, the bang for the buck will be with the HV30 available for under $575 almost everywhere.

Best, Craig

Buba Kastorski · March 6th, 2009, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Jones

The thing thats preventing me from forking out the extra $800 or so for the S10 is apparently the low light shooting isn't as good as the other cheaper models.. but thats not 100% confirmed yet....
..

i think the low light of HF S10/100 is better than the other cheaper models
HF S10 Low light on Vimeo

Dave Blackhurst · March 6th, 2009, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig Hollenback

My concern with the tapeless models is the huge file sizes once they are imported. Currently with our Sony EX1, the compression method keeps the files sizes pretty much the same size that they were when shot. Large, but easily managable in FCP. HDV is of cource even smaller. These new AVCHD files are very difficult to manage.
Why I’m Avoiding AVCHD - PaulStamatiou.com

I believe for me, the bang for the buck will be with the HV30 available for under $575 almost everywhere.

Best, Craig

Hi Craig -

AVCHD is getting a lot of bogus bad "press" from users who don't know their A**HD from their AVCHD... whoever wrote that article was transcoding at the least, and just plain wasting his time more likely...

Bottom line, the file sizes aren't THAT huge, or they wouldn't fit on the nifty little memory cards/sticks. AND importing the files is at 1/3 real time in most cases, as is widely reported - MUCH faster than 1/1 tape dump. Where you run into trouble is that most of the NLE's are not well optimized to handle AVCHD... YET.

SO, people are transcoding to other formats to try to get an "easier to edit" format... and this takes time as opposed to editing the native AVCHD files. IF your NLE is up to the task, and you're running a reasonable Quad core machine, you're not going to have any insurmountable issues editing AVCHD native... it DOES take a lot of horsepower to compress/uncompress on the fly, and as I mentioned, I think there's room for optimization.

AS for output, renders are ALWAYS slow for HD, and AVCHD is not different from my experience - render time is dependent on how much processing/effects/CC/cropping/etc. you've applied, and the output file format... it has only a small part to do with whether the computer has to uncompress AVCHD along the way.

Hope that helps clarify the FUD a bit. YES AVCHD can be a challenge, but so was HDV at the beginning... now everyone says there's nothing to it!

Rick Bolton · March 6th, 2009, 05:35 PM

Dave +1 on your comments. Videos from our Canon HF100 go from the camera memory card via a USB card reader and into FCE w/o any problems thus far.

We are :-) campers with AVCHD thus far.

Craig Hollenback · March 8th, 2009, 08:45 PM

We went with the HV30 because we'll pretty much get two for the price of one. Picked up the 30 at a reputable NY music/electronic mail order for under $575. Lower cost on the WA for around $165 at the same place. Low cost 4 year damage/failure warranty under for $1k camera. We'll order the second after a few tests. We're doing a fishing show and need a few "disposable" cameras for on the water/below the surface shooting...bright sun, low light is no problem. We needed to move on it now, so couldn't wait for April release.
Will keep posted on results.
Best, Craig
Key West – Florida Keys - ConchTV - KeysTV

Dave Blackhurst · March 8th, 2009, 10:41 PM

Hi Craig -
The HF-S cameras are in the retail chain already, but I can certainly understand the price differential, the pricing on the new cams from both Canon and Sony seems a bit steep! I'm going to be waiting for the "street" price to get realistic!

You might keep in mind that the HV's fit in the Sony Sports Packs (underwater shell rated to 17 ft.), you can't use the LANC since the Canon has no LANC input, but you can use the little included remote control. Might make the cameras a little less "disposable" <wink>! I sold a bunch of gutted SPK HCB shells I had at one time to HV20 owners, so I know they are a good option for harsh conditions.

Pete Bauer · March 9th, 2009, 07:07 AM

+2 for Dave's comments. That article Craig linked was a full year old and hardly a scientific piece; IMO just a quick-look commentary to fill half a column of text. Two hours of full raster video is compressed onto an inexpensive SD card, transfer is at least 2-3 times realtime, and I can say from experience that it edits smoothly on a QX6700 machine with CS4, which handles AVCHD natively. And the camera actually fits in a coat pocket! Technical progress has been phenomenal in the past few years; I really don't get all the naysaying.

I keep one of my old Hi8 camcorders around to gather dust with my old Hi8 tapes, but I'll probably never use it since the tapes have all been digitized. Similarly, I'll probably pick up an HV40 to sit with my HDV tapes once I move on to tapeless workflow, just to retain the capability to play the tapes. As an aside, this is a point those who argue for tape as the ultimate archival medium probably ought to consider. Both the tape and the camcorder playback mechanism have to survive for years in case you need to set up realtime captures again (or start hunting for a camcorder that works when yours finally gives up the ghost). For tapeless, simply select your files and copy them to other (very inexpensive) media much faster than realtime and go have a quick cup of coffee. You can do that as many times as you wish for redundant backup. The chances of a mainstream video file format going completely orphan within your lifetime are near zero. I carry an HF10 around for quick shots and home use (and probably won't be able to resist the HF-S100), but not quite ready to give up the XL cameras for more formal work. However, solid state is trickling UP so I believe the day isn't so far off in the future (not more than a few years) when we think of HD recorded onto mini cassettes in the way we currently think of Hi8.

Anyway, Craig, as far as the needs of your project I think it is a matter of price, timing, and whether or not your editing suite(s) are ready to handle AVCHD.

Dave Blackhurst · March 10th, 2009, 12:18 AM

he he he... so I'm not the only one with a couple "old" cameras hanging around to support a stack of old tapes. I've been thinking it's time to dump all those tapes and get it over with!

March 2nd, 2009, 07:26 AM	#1
Craig Hollenback Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Key West Posts: 247	Vixia hf s100 Are there any sites that have reviewed the camera and been able to comment on picture quality vs: and HV30, etc.? We are in immediate need of something like the HV30 but could use the direct to memory card feature of the VIXIA HF S100. I am hoping the wait and double cost will be worth it. It is appealing to get 2 HV30's for the crew for the price of one VIXIA HF S100. Best, Craig

March 2nd, 2009, 01:45 PM	#2
Buba Kastorski Trustee Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Toronto Posts: 1,414	My s10 is coming next week, will do some shooting and post the results, but looking at the sample clips on youtube and vimeo that little cam. does an amazing job! __________________ I love this place!

March 6th, 2009, 06:06 AM	#8
Craig Hollenback Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Key West Posts: 247	huge files My concern with the tapeless models is the huge file sizes once they are imported. Currently with our Sony EX1, the compression method keeps the files sizes pretty much the same size that they were when shot. Large, but easily managable in FCP. HDV is of cource even smaller. These new AVCHD files are very difficult to manage. Why I’m Avoiding AVCHD - PaulStamatiou.com I believe for me, the bang for the buck will be with the HV30 available for under $575 almost everywhere. Best, Craig

March 8th, 2009, 08:45 PM	#12
Craig Hollenback Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Key West Posts: 247	went with the HV30 We went with the HV30 because we'll pretty much get two for the price of one. Picked up the 30 at a reputable NY music/electronic mail order for under $575. Lower cost on the WA for around $165 at the same place. Low cost 4 year damage/failure warranty under for $1k camera. We'll order the second after a few tests. We're doing a fishing show and need a few "disposable" cameras for on the water/below the surface shooting...bright sun, low light is no problem. We needed to move on it now, so couldn't wait for April release. Will keep posted on results. Best, Craig Key West – Florida Keys - ConchTV - KeysTV

March 9th, 2009, 07:07 AM	#14
Pete Bauer Wrangler Join Date: May 2003 Location: Eagle River, AK Posts: 4,100	+2 for Dave's comments. That article Craig linked was a full year old and hardly a scientific piece; IMO just a quick-look commentary to fill half a column of text. Two hours of full raster video is compressed onto an inexpensive SD card, transfer is at least 2-3 times realtime, and I can say from experience that it edits smoothly on a QX6700 machine with CS4, which handles AVCHD natively. And the camera actually fits in a coat pocket! Technical progress has been phenomenal in the past few years; I really don't get all the naysaying. I keep one of my old Hi8 camcorders around to gather dust with my old Hi8 tapes, but I'll probably never use it since the tapes have all been digitized. Similarly, I'll probably pick up an HV40 to sit with my HDV tapes once I move on to tapeless workflow, just to retain the capability to play the tapes. As an aside, this is a point those who argue for tape as the ultimate archival medium probably ought to consider. Both the tape and the camcorder playback mechanism have to survive for years in case you need to set up realtime captures again (or start hunting for a camcorder that works when yours finally gives up the ghost). For tapeless, simply select your files and copy them to other (very inexpensive) media much faster than realtime and go have a quick cup of coffee. You can do that as many times as you wish for redundant backup. The chances of a mainstream video file format going completely orphan within your lifetime are near zero. I carry an HF10 around for quick shots and home use (and probably won't be able to resist the HF-S100), but not quite ready to give up the XL cameras for more formal work. However, solid state is trickling UP so I believe the day isn't so far off in the future (not more than a few years) when we think of HD recorded onto mini cassettes in the way we currently think of Hi8. Anyway, Craig, as far as the needs of your project I think it is a matter of price, timing, and whether or not your editing suite(s) are ready to handle AVCHD. __________________ Pete Bauer The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science. Albert Einstein Trying to solve a DV mystery? You may find the answer behind the SEARCH function ... or be able to join a discussion already in progress!

March 2nd, 2009, 01:47 PM	#3
Dave Blackhurst Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Apple Valley CA Posts: 4,874	Craig - there's a link to a Japanese review of the HF-S100 in the AVCHD section of DVi, translations are always interesting, but might give you a early idea or two. It compares the HF-S and the new Sony XR series. I'd wait if it were me, the new technology should be a good step up from the HV series just because of the improvements in tech over time... whether it's worth the added cost of being the first kid on the block with the new toys... that's up to you!

March 5th, 2009, 09:20 AM	#4
Steve Rotter Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Chicago Posts: 94	hey guys, i'm in the same boat, HV30 or S10 or 100. i guess i can wait...IF it's only a month! hey, what's the difference between the S10 and S100? i just found out about these cams yesterday as i was going to place an order for an HV30. also, with the S10, S100, we have the file format AVCHD to deal with...and some DLEs may not play well. you will need to transcode, etc etc. i love the thought of tapeless for these little guys!! BUT, will also have to be good in lower light.

March 5th, 2009, 03:22 PM	#6
Steve Rotter Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Chicago Posts: 94	so i guess now i decide between the s10 and HV30. i have no idea!

March 5th, 2009, 04:14 PM	#7
Michael Jones New Boot Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 11	Im considering either the HF S10 or the HF20.... S10 has the higher quality image/pixels but its like $800 more expensive and im not sure if it's worth it just for filming home movies etc... The thing thats preventing me from forking out the extra $800 or so for the S10 is apparently the low light shooting isn't as good as the other cheaper models.. but thats not 100% confirmed yet.... Will have to wait a few more weeks fot both models to be fully reviewed i spose....

March 6th, 2009, 05:35 PM	#11
Rick Bolton Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Palo Alto California Posts: 110	Dave +1 on your comments. Videos from our Canon HF100 go from the camera memory card via a USB card reader and into FCE w/o any problems thus far. We are :-) campers with AVCHD thus far.

March 8th, 2009, 10:41 PM	#13
Dave Blackhurst Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Apple Valley CA Posts: 4,874	Hi Craig - The HF-S cameras are in the retail chain already, but I can certainly understand the price differential, the pricing on the new cams from both Canon and Sony seems a bit steep! I'm going to be waiting for the "street" price to get realistic! You might keep in mind that the HV's fit in the Sony Sports Packs (underwater shell rated to 17 ft.), you can't use the LANC since the Canon has no LANC input, but you can use the little included remote control. Might make the cameras a little less "disposable" <wink>! I sold a bunch of gutted SPK HCB shells I had at one time to HV20 owners, so I know they are a good option for harsh conditions.

March 10th, 2009, 12:18 AM	#15
Dave Blackhurst Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Apple Valley CA Posts: 4,874	he he he... so I'm not the only one with a couple "old" cameras hanging around to support a stack of old tapes. I've been thinking it's time to dump all those tapes and get it over with!