New: Canon VIXIA consumer HD camcorders for 2009

Scott Hayes · January 7th, 2009, 12:36 PM

how do these new cams compare tot he HG21 I just bought 3 weeks ago?

Evan Donn · January 7th, 2009, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ethan Cooper

Face detection huh? What exactly can you do with that?

Well, in addition to the aforementioned search functionality the primary use for this is autofocus - the camera will autofocus on faces rather than the background, and it sounds like you can choose a face to track with autofocus. If this actually works reliably I might actually have a use for autofocus!

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Sholle

All of Canon's new flash memory based camcorders have LCD screens only. What are other's thoughts on this? Are most of you primarily using the LCD screen only and find that is OK?

I've been shooting with an XHA1 for the past couple of years and I'd have to say I've used the viewfinder maybe half a dozen times - I shoot almost exclusively with the LCD, occasionally using a small hoodman shade in bright sunlight. With the 5D it's not even an option but I haven't found myself missing it yet. With the availability of the new hoodman viewfinder Chris posted I don't see the lack of a viewfinder as a big drawback, especially considering the LCD screens on some of these new cameras are significantly better than the viewfinder displays.

I'm really excited about the hfs100 - I'm seriously thinking it may replace my XHA1 for situations where the 5D doesn't work out. I'm looking forward to Scarlet but I was really disappointed that they didn't deliver what they'd originally promised - a 'professional pocket camera'. The HFs100 is getting close, and should fit into a single lens pocket in my camera bag.

Ian Slessor · January 7th, 2009, 03:54 PM

So, would Class 4 SDHC cards be more than sufficient for this cam?

ian

David Sholle · January 7th, 2009, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

No problem, just turn the LCD display into an EVF (see attached pics)... Hoodman USA

Chris, is that a one-off custom modification of Hoodman's current HoodLoupe or is it something that Hoodman is bringing to market soon?

Also, if the camcorders get any smaller, the HoodLoupe will start to dwarf the camcorder.

Dan Brockett · January 7th, 2009, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

New VIXIA model pricing... subject to change though:

HF S10: $1400
HF S100: $1200
HF20: $1000
HF200: $850
HV40: $1000

Would everyone agree that "usually, not always", street prices average about 20% less?

Dan

Dave Blackhurst · January 7th, 2009, 11:58 PM

I've noticed street prices with Canon are often pretty flexible once supply hits, and if I had to guess, those prices may turn out to be on the high side... what with the economy.

Logan Trussell · January 8th, 2009, 06:59 AM

These cameras look to be coming out on Amazon about a month after they are officially released in February by Canon. March 15, 2009 to be exact. They are probably going to be much cheaper on Amazon then anywhere else.

This looks like a really nice upgrade to the HF100, whereas the HF11/HG20 didn't really add much except for 24MBPS recording.

Thomas Smet · January 8th, 2009, 01:32 PM

Chris can you confirm how the native 24p mode will work on the HV40? Is it the same 24F or something new?

Evan Donn · January 8th, 2009, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Sholle

Chris, is that a one-off custom modification of Hoodman's current HoodLoupe or is it something that Hoodman is bringing to market soon?

That's an actual Hoodman product; just saw it at their booth at macworld today. Said it would be available soon and that they're working on something similar for the DSLRs as well. I actually picked up a Hoodloupe after trying it with the 5D - even though I've gotten used to not using a viewfinder, something about using the Hoodloupe with the 5d makes it feel more like shooting with a video camera!

Rob Kral · January 9th, 2009, 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Hayes

how do these new cams compare tot he HG21 I just bought 3 weeks ago?

I am in the same boat, see my previous post...

I think that which ever way you look at it, this new HFS10 is MIGHTY NICE INDEED.

Check out the "product description" at amazon, it reads like an encyclopedia of fantastic features, one feature after the next they just keep coming. I knew the HG series prices were dropping, I wasn't "in the know" enough to realize WHEN the new stuff was coming out!

On top of that, portability is a concern for me, and with the new flagship HS though it's lense barrel looks huge, the camera itself is SMALLER than the HG21! (10mm thinner, 8mm less height).

Tony Tibbetts · January 9th, 2009, 04:15 PM

I don't know if this has been answered completely or not. Can the custom control manually control the zoom, focus, aperture, and shutter?

It appears that it can, but I was wondering if anybody could confirm this?

If so this camera is going to be pretty sweet.

Evan Donn · January 9th, 2009, 08:53 PM

Played with an HFS100 at macworld for a little bit yesterday... the new menu system is much better than the old one in my opinion. However, it still doesn't appear to have true full manual control. You've got aperture and shutter priority modes, but no way to control both independently at the same time. I suspect the workaround is to choose one, i.e. shutter in shutter priority mode, then use the manual exposure control to adjust the other - but it doesn't give you the explicit values this way.

Unfortunately cinema mode disables the gain limit controls... couldn't tell if it respected your last setting or not.

The custom control can only be set to one function at a time - the button toggles between auto/manual and then the dial sets the manual level. It doesn't look like you can set it for zoom, shutter or aperture - only 'exposure', focus, audio, and auto gain limit.

The gain control appears to just limit the maximum gain, so presumably with it at 0db the exposure control would only affect the one remaining property (aperture in shutter priority and vice versa).

I picked up a Hoodloupe at the show but didn't get a chance to get back and try it on the canons - however the layout of all the controls on the lcd frame will likely make the setup Chris posted above impractical as the loupe and connecting wrap would essentially block access to nearly all controls on the camera. The loupe is normally meant to be worn around the neck rather than mounted on the camera anyway and this will probably be the best way to use it.

Chris Hurd · January 10th, 2009, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evan Donn

However, it still doesn't appear to have true full manual control.

No such thing as full manual on any consumer Canon camcorder, but the workaround popularized for the old HV20 still applies here... shoot in shutter priority, and press exposure lock to tweak the f/stop a bit to where you want it... this technique has been around for a long time now.

Quote:

I picked up a Hoodloupe at the show but didn't get a chance to get back and try it on the canons - however the layout of all the controls on the lcd frame will likely make the setup Chris posted above impractical as the loupe and connecting wrap would essentially block access to nearly all controls on the camera.

Actually it *doesn't* interfere with the joystick and function button. It only blocks some of the buttons on the left side and under the LCD, and those aren't used when taking a shot. In my opinion it's highly practical for anyone who wants to make an EVF out of the LCD panel.

Eugene Fong · January 11th, 2009, 07:57 PM

How will these new cameras perform in low-light situations that is the 25K dollar question. The new HF20/200 seem to have a smaller sensor than current HF10/100 and HG2x series. Will this hinder the camera's image quality and fidelity or will DVIII advancements in AutoExposure compensate for the smaller CCD?

Evan Donn · January 12th, 2009, 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

No such thing as full manual on any consumer Canon camcorder, but the workaround popularized for the old HV20 still applies here... shoot in shutter priority, and press exposure lock to tweak the f/stop a bit to where you want it... this technique has been around for a long time now.

Well, up until these new models there was also no such thing as gain control on any consumer Canon, so I was hoping maybe they'd gone the whole way this time...

I just think it's funny how things go with Canon - I also played with a G10 at the show. It has big, clicky, stacked DIALS for ISO, AE mode and exposure compensation. It was one of the best things I've seen from Canon. It was almost like using a real camera. I wish my mkII had those. Imagine a small video camera with a couple of dials like that - they could cover white balance, shutter speed, gain and aperture and then just need a ring or wheel for focus... I know, I know, it's a crazy idea.

January 7th, 2009, 03:54 PM	#48
Ian Slessor Major Player Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: South-Central Ontario, Canada Posts: 216	Class 4 cards acceptable? So, would Class 4 SDHC cards be more than sufficient for this cam? ian

January 8th, 2009, 06:59 AM	#52
Logan Trussell Tourist Join Date: May 2008 Location: United States Posts: 2	These cameras look to be coming out on Amazon about a month after they are officially released in February by Canon. March 15, 2009 to be exact. They are probably going to be much cheaper on Amazon then anywhere else. This looks like a really nice upgrade to the HF100, whereas the HF11/HG20 didn't really add much except for 24MBPS recording. Last edited by Logan Trussell; January 8th, 2009 at 07:46 AM.

January 9th, 2009, 08:53 PM	#57
Evan Donn Major Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 795	Played with an HFS100 at macworld for a little bit yesterday... the new menu system is much better than the old one in my opinion. However, it still doesn't appear to have true full manual control. You've got aperture and shutter priority modes, but no way to control both independently at the same time. I suspect the workaround is to choose one, i.e. shutter in shutter priority mode, then use the manual exposure control to adjust the other - but it doesn't give you the explicit values this way. Unfortunately cinema mode disables the gain limit controls... couldn't tell if it respected your last setting or not. The custom control can only be set to one function at a time - the button toggles between auto/manual and then the dial sets the manual level. It doesn't look like you can set it for zoom, shutter or aperture - only 'exposure', focus, audio, and auto gain limit. The gain control appears to just limit the maximum gain, so presumably with it at 0db the exposure control would only affect the one remaining property (aperture in shutter priority and vice versa). I picked up a Hoodloupe at the show but didn't get a chance to get back and try it on the canons - however the layout of all the controls on the lcd frame will likely make the setup Chris posted above impractical as the loupe and connecting wrap would essentially block access to nearly all controls on the camera. The loupe is normally meant to be worn around the neck rather than mounted on the camera anyway and this will probably be the best way to use it. __________________ My latest short documentary: "Four Pauls: Bring the Hat Back!"

January 7th, 2009, 12:36 PM	#46
Scott Hayes Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Lexington, KY Posts: 692	how do these new cams compare tot he HG21 I just bought 3 weeks ago?

January 7th, 2009, 11:58 PM	#51
Dave Blackhurst Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Apple Valley CA Posts: 4,874	I've noticed street prices with Canon are often pretty flexible once supply hits, and if I had to guess, those prices may turn out to be on the high side... what with the economy.

January 8th, 2009, 01:32 PM	#53
Thomas Smet Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 1,719	Chris can you confirm how the native 24p mode will work on the HV40? Is it the same 24F or something new?

January 9th, 2009, 04:15 PM	#56
Tony Tibbetts Major Player Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 385	I don't know if this has been answered completely or not. Can the custom control manually control the zoom, focus, aperture, and shutter? It appears that it can, but I was wondering if anybody could confirm this? If so this camera is going to be pretty sweet.

January 11th, 2009, 07:57 PM	#59
Eugene Fong Tourist Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Lo Posts: 4	How will these new cameras perform in low-light situations that is the 25K dollar question. The new HF20/200 seem to have a smaller sensor than current HF10/100 and HG2x series. Will this hinder the camera's image quality and fidelity or will DVIII advancements in AutoExposure compensate for the smaller CCD?