New: Canon VIXIA consumer HD camcorders for 2009

Evan Donn · January 6th, 2009, 01:23 PM

Hard to tell from the menu - can you only assign one function (i.e. focus or exposure) to the custom dial, or can you use the button next to the dial to cycle through the various choices? My first generation Elura used a small thumb wheel which could be toggled between focus and exposure and it was actually a very fast/convenient way to operate the camera.

Also interesting to note is the face detection... it apparently identifies up to 35 faces in the scene and you can track a single face or search for a particular face across clips on your memory card. Seems like this would be more useful on the computer than in the camera unless you keep all of your footage on sd cards. Apple just announced a similar feature in the new iPhoto, but it doesn't look like it's in iMovie yet.

Ethan Cooper · January 6th, 2009, 02:00 PM

Face detection huh? What exactly can you do with that?

Henry Olonga · January 6th, 2009, 03:19 PM

I must say that this HFS100 camera excites me very much - an indies dream.I reckon recorded to Cineform through a blackmagic design intensity,this may well look like footage from a camera many times its price.Canon have let the cat amongst the pigeons here.I mean an 8.5 megapixel sensor - that is insane.Canon claims better dynamic range as well - one of my gripes about the SR11.Blown highlights way to early.I know there are concerns about lowlight performance but on the product features page the suggestion is that it will be awesome.Perhaps the still imaging department (the 5D guys) are talking to the video .How good is the 5D in low light....and I do recognise that it is mainly due to the large sensor. I think that this camera has everything that I wish my SR11 had.The main difference for me will be the really good LCD touch screen the SR11 has.

As soon as this baby comes out I will have a series of tests with my portable intensity capture station with my impending SGblade and I reckon that it may well surprise a few people at its potential.I have been very,very impressed with the intensity footage that I have been able to get out of the SR11.Now with this sensor that has a resolution that is almost 3k downsampled,there is a lot to be excited about.I have been a Sony man for a while but it may be time to jump ship.I was also thinking of Scarlet but this changes things for me.I honestly think so although time will tell.For now on paper this looks like the front-runner for those of us in the sub £ 1200 price point.Quick workflow using Cineform and excellent quality.Just wish Blackmagic design could make an expresscard version of their intensity.

Waiting to hear what Sony have to announce on the 7th but it has to be good to change my path..

Randy Panado · January 6th, 2009, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian G. Thompson

Well, aside from a missing a "real" focus ring, I think this cam is much better than the old Panasonic GS400 from several years back (in terms of manual control).

And the same price as the GS400 when it was new! I really hope this is as good as the paper says. I'm very excited about this guy :).

Ian Slessor · January 6th, 2009, 04:19 PM

...exposure and focus.

Well, one can dream. :)

Seriously though. I've been looking at going HD from my DVXb cams and since we bought a house, well, the HMC150 just isn't in the cards. Too bad. :P

But the HFS10/100?

This could very well be what I'm looking for to go HD for my recitals and shows.

ian

Ethan Cooper · January 6th, 2009, 04:23 PM

Ian,

If you're coming from the DVX's then the little cameras might frustrate you a good bit with their operation. I'd play around with one extensively first to see if you'll want to throw it out the window or not. You'll probably be happy with the image quality, especially in decent lighting or if you're setting up your own lighting, but operating the little guy might make you want to scream.

David Sholle · January 6th, 2009, 04:24 PM

All of my early camcorders starting in the late 1980's were viewfinder only, and I became very familiar with that. My more recent camcorders are both viewfinder and LCD screen, for example the HV20. I find that I use the viewfinder more often than the LCD screen. All of Canon's new flash memory based camcorders have LCD screens only. What are other's thoughts on this? Are most of you primarily using the LCD screen only and find that is OK? I tend to use the LCD screen when tripod mounted or with certain hand held shots, but for other hand held shots I find myself using the viewfinder. Certainly the brightness and contrast of LCD screens has been steadily improving, so that is becoming less of a concern.

Dave Blackhurst · January 6th, 2009, 04:53 PM

David -
I too like having a VF... among the plusses with the SR11. Although I do end up taking the little CX12 along more often than the SR11... so you CAN live without the VF, but it's not the greatest - I've had a couple situations where the LCD just couldn't cope with the bright sun outdoors, and the VF was mighty handy!

The specs on the new Canons HF-S series certainly are impressive though, gotta like the big lens and higher rez sensor, manual controls look at least a bit better... And 24 and 30P... not bad at all...

Being more of a Sony guy myself, I'm hoping Sony will come out with something comparable so I can hang on to my accessories! Looks like Canon has another winner, if it holds up to the specs once it arrives - seems a bit price-y though, but street and post release pricing could fix that pretty fast! The HV30 selling at around $600 is quite a bit below the original MSRP.

Ian Slessor · January 6th, 2009, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ethan Cooper

Ian,

If you're coming from the DVX's then the little cameras might frustrate you a good bit with their operation. I'd play around with one extensively first to see if you'll want to throw it out the window or not. You'll probably be happy with the image quality, especially in decent lighting or if you're setting up your own lighting, but operating the little guy might make you want to scream.

Heh.

Yeah. I hear you, Ethan.

The DVX is a dream to run but it's faux 16:9 SD footage is just...not good enough. For me anyway. Certainly not on an HDTV.

I'm hoping the Canon will meet me halfway in regards to operation.

I've always just locked the shutterspeed anyway and "floated" the exposure depending on the zebras. Looks like I can still do that with the HFS but with my Pannys I use the Varizoom controller. Very nice.

I was thinking, based on a pic I saw of an HV20 rigged with a rubber wheel against the rolling controller at the front, of cobbling together a device that would use reversible motors to move the zoom controller and the roller wheel at the front of the cam with a control box on the tripod handle.

A bit more work then I'd like but if it gave me a modicum of "remote" control then why not?

Looks like I could put a pair together for under $100...with a little help from my tech-head brother-in-law.

No plans as of yet but I'm working on it.

ian

Ron Evans · January 6th, 2009, 07:54 PM

To me a hand held needs a viewfinder and for tripod use a wired remote with variable zoom control. These new Canon's have neither. I too am hoping that Sony bring out a more manually capable SR11 which already has viewfinder, remote control, face recognition and 10Mpixel stills and which I am quite pleased with at the moment.

Ron Evans

Chris Hurd · January 6th, 2009, 09:11 PM

No problem, just turn the LCD display into an EVF (see attached pics)... Hoodman USA

Rob Kral · January 7th, 2009, 02:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Sholle

All of my early camcorders starting in the late 1980's were viewfinder only, and I became very familiar with that. My more recent camcorders are both viewfinder and LCD screen, for example the HV20. I find that I use the viewfinder more often than the LCD screen. All of Canon's new flash memory based camcorders have LCD screens only. What are other's thoughts on this? Are most of you primarily using the LCD screen only and find that is OK? I tend to use the LCD screen when tripod mounted or with certain hand held shots, but for other hand held shots I find myself using the viewfinder. Certainly the brightness and contrast of LCD screens has been steadily improving, so that is becoming less of a concern.

YES this is a very good point in my opinion. I only JUST before Christmas bought the HG21. And then this announcement I saw today and I thought "OH NO!!!!!", but to me, the viewfinder really is a big issue, I simply feel I NEED a viewfinder. I'm not gonna diss the fantastic new features, lens, sensor, face detection all the superb inclusions on this new cam, but lack of viewfinder was, in my case, a bit of a relief and everyone else's LOSS. (OK OK there are plenty of GAINS too! :) )

If it had a viewfinder, BAM HG21 out the window brand new.

Paul Kendal · January 7th, 2009, 06:04 AM

Hey Chris,

Does the HFs10 have zebras and peaking also?

Thanks,
Paul

Chris Hurd · January 7th, 2009, 09:09 AM

Zebras at 70 or 100 IRE and peaking in choice of three colors (R,Y,B).

See menu pics at beginning of this thread.

Paul Kendal · January 7th, 2009, 10:07 AM

Yes...I saw the pictures...just making sure they were from the HFs10 and not the HV40.

Anyway....thanks for the info!!!!!

Can't wait to get one of these new cams!

Paul

January 6th, 2009, 01:23 PM	#31
Evan Donn Major Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 795	Hard to tell from the menu - can you only assign one function (i.e. focus or exposure) to the custom dial, or can you use the button next to the dial to cycle through the various choices? My first generation Elura used a small thumb wheel which could be toggled between focus and exposure and it was actually a very fast/convenient way to operate the camera. Also interesting to note is the face detection... it apparently identifies up to 35 faces in the scene and you can track a single face or search for a particular face across clips on your memory card. Seems like this would be more useful on the computer than in the camera unless you keep all of your footage on sd cards. Apple just announced a similar feature in the new iPhoto, but it doesn't look like it's in iMovie yet. __________________ My latest short documentary: "Four Pauls: Bring the Hat Back!"

January 6th, 2009, 02:00 PM	#32
Ethan Cooper Trustee Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Houma, La. Posts: 1,400 Images: 5	Face detection huh? What exactly can you do with that? __________________ ∅ -Ethan Cooper

January 6th, 2009, 03:19 PM	#33
Henry Olonga Major Player Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: London Posts: 201	Very excited about the HFS100 I must say that this HFS100 camera excites me very much - an indies dream.I reckon recorded to Cineform through a blackmagic design intensity,this may well look like footage from a camera many times its price.Canon have let the cat amongst the pigeons here.I mean an 8.5 megapixel sensor - that is insane.Canon claims better dynamic range as well - one of my gripes about the SR11.Blown highlights way to early.I know there are concerns about lowlight performance but on the product features page the suggestion is that it will be awesome.Perhaps the still imaging department (the 5D guys) are talking to the video .How good is the 5D in low light....and I do recognise that it is mainly due to the large sensor. I think that this camera has everything that I wish my SR11 had.The main difference for me will be the really good LCD touch screen the SR11 has. As soon as this baby comes out I will have a series of tests with my portable intensity capture station with my impending SGblade and I reckon that it may well surprise a few people at its potential.I have been very,very impressed with the intensity footage that I have been able to get out of the SR11.Now with this sensor that has a resolution that is almost 3k downsampled,there is a lot to be excited about.I have been a Sony man for a while but it may be time to jump ship.I was also thinking of Scarlet but this changes things for me.I honestly think so although time will tell.For now on paper this looks like the front-runner for those of us in the sub £ 1200 price point.Quick workflow using Cineform and excellent quality.Just wish Blackmagic design could make an expresscard version of their intensity. Waiting to hear what Sony have to announce on the 7th but it has to be good to change my path..

January 6th, 2009, 04:19 PM	#35
Ian Slessor Major Player Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: South-Central Ontario, Canada Posts: 216	Now if only they had wired remote for zoom... ...exposure and focus. Well, one can dream. :) Seriously though. I've been looking at going HD from my DVXb cams and since we bought a house, well, the HMC150 just isn't in the cards. Too bad. :P But the HFS10/100? This could very well be what I'm looking for to go HD for my recitals and shows. ian

January 6th, 2009, 04:23 PM	#36
Ethan Cooper Trustee Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Houma, La. Posts: 1,400 Images: 5	Ian, If you're coming from the DVX's then the little cameras might frustrate you a good bit with their operation. I'd play around with one extensively first to see if you'll want to throw it out the window or not. You'll probably be happy with the image quality, especially in decent lighting or if you're setting up your own lighting, but operating the little guy might make you want to scream. __________________ ∅ -Ethan Cooper

January 6th, 2009, 04:24 PM	#37
David Sholle Regular Crew Join Date: May 2007 Location: Mammoth Lakes CA Posts: 125	All of my early camcorders starting in the late 1980's were viewfinder only, and I became very familiar with that. My more recent camcorders are both viewfinder and LCD screen, for example the HV20. I find that I use the viewfinder more often than the LCD screen. All of Canon's new flash memory based camcorders have LCD screens only. What are other's thoughts on this? Are most of you primarily using the LCD screen only and find that is OK? I tend to use the LCD screen when tripod mounted or with certain hand held shots, but for other hand held shots I find myself using the viewfinder. Certainly the brightness and contrast of LCD screens has been steadily improving, so that is becoming less of a concern.

January 6th, 2009, 04:53 PM	#38
Dave Blackhurst Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Apple Valley CA Posts: 4,874	David - I too like having a VF... among the plusses with the SR11. Although I do end up taking the little CX12 along more often than the SR11... so you CAN live without the VF, but it's not the greatest - I've had a couple situations where the LCD just couldn't cope with the bright sun outdoors, and the VF was mighty handy! The specs on the new Canons HF-S series certainly are impressive though, gotta like the big lens and higher rez sensor, manual controls look at least a bit better... And 24 and 30P... not bad at all... Being more of a Sony guy myself, I'm hoping Sony will come out with something comparable so I can hang on to my accessories! Looks like Canon has another winner, if it holds up to the specs once it arrives - seems a bit price-y though, but street and post release pricing could fix that pretty fast! The HV30 selling at around $600 is quite a bit below the original MSRP.

January 6th, 2009, 07:54 PM	#40
Ron Evans Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,220	To me a hand held needs a viewfinder and for tripod use a wired remote with variable zoom control. These new Canon's have neither. I too am hoping that Sony bring out a more manually capable SR11 which already has viewfinder, remote control, face recognition and 10Mpixel stills and which I am quite pleased with at the moment. Ron Evans

January 6th, 2009, 09:11 PM	#41
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	No problem, just turn the LCD display into an EVF (see attached pics)... Hoodman USA Attached Thumbnails __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

January 7th, 2009, 06:04 AM	#43
Paul Kendal Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Asheville, North Carolina Posts: 89	Zebras for HFs10? Hey Chris, Does the HFs10 have zebras and peaking also? Thanks, Paul __________________ Canon HV20 \| Sony FX1 \| Canon XH-A1 \| Sony XDCam EX1 \| 8 Core Mac with FCP and lots of Hard Drives

January 7th, 2009, 09:09 AM	#44
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Zebras at 70 or 100 IRE and peaking in choice of three colors (R,Y,B). See menu pics at beginning of this thread. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

January 7th, 2009, 10:07 AM	#45
Paul Kendal Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Asheville, North Carolina Posts: 89	Yes...I saw the pictures...just making sure they were from the HFs10 and not the HV40. Anyway....thanks for the info!!!!! Can't wait to get one of these new cams! Paul __________________ Canon HV20 \| Sony FX1 \| Canon XH-A1 \| Sony XDCam EX1 \| 8 Core Mac with FCP and lots of Hard Drives