HF100 Playback Ergonomics are Poorly Thought Out at DVinfo.net

Alvin Kearney · December 12th, 2008, 09:59 AM

Hi Folks,

New member here. I've been lurking for about half a year while evaluating and purchasing my HF100. I appreciate all of the good advice on these forums.

I am generally happy with the HF100, but I am struck by how poor the ergonomics are on clip playback and management. The main things that bug me are:

1) number of clicks required to view and delete a single clip == 12! this is crazy! I particularly object to having to click to confirm that the clip was deleted AFTER the deletion takes place.

2) when playing back clips, the system will automatically jump to the next clip with no visual indication. I would at least like to have the option to stop at the end of the clip with it still selected so that it can be deleted later.

It really seems that what is needed is a way to quickly delete clips while in playback mode, without having to invoke the Function mode to access the delete option. I come from the Canon DSLR world where all of these functions are carefully thought out to minimize actions required; on my 40D I can review and delete images with 2 clicks per image, surely Canon could do better than 12 on the HF100.

Sorry for venting, but I do feel better now. Am I missing some shortcuts that could improve on the playback ergonomics? I sure wish Canon would come out with a firmware upgrade that could fix some of these issues.

Jeff DeLamater · December 12th, 2008, 10:22 AM

i agree. the playback system definitely could use some tweaking.

for example, i just deleted a clip, why must i confirm that i want the now deleted clip from the playlist, even if it was never added to the playlist. and even if it was added the playlist, why would i want a reference to a non-existent clip in the playlist?

and there is a sort of shortcut to get to the last video captured from the recording mode.

click the nav stick, press left, and the last video captured will start playing, and you can then delete from there. still a bunch of steps.

i'm actually fine with the delete being nested in the function menu, but after i click delete, make it one conf click, and be done with it. if there is some reason why you'd want to keep a ref in the playlist, make it an option in the setup screen, otherwise, just remove the deleted clip from the playlist.

anyways, i feel your pain. but the short cut does help a bit. oh, and i think the word you were going for is "usability", not ergonomics. :)

Alvin Kearney · December 12th, 2008, 10:51 AM

the quick review thing does help in some circumstances, but typically I am shooting a whole bunch of clips in rapid sequence and do not have time to review them until after the event.

a lot of the grief could be easily fixed in firmware, but I fear that Canon is concentrating on the next model instead.

I take your point about "usability", but I think the ergonomics are integral to the problems. if I didn't have that fiddly little joystick to fuss with then I could at least rely on muscle memory to blast through the steps. instead I need to pay careful attention to each click and make sure it registers as I intend it to.

Jeff DeLamater · December 12th, 2008, 12:31 PM

ok, i wasn't thinking of it in that sense. put that i way i can definitely see the ergonomics issue.

i guess they figured most people would use that horrible pixela software to manage their clips. that software is so bad, i want some money back for even trying it :)

Bruce Foreman · December 14th, 2008, 12:45 AM

It may be best that it is a hassle to delete clips in playback mode. Imagine getting rushed or a bit confused and deleting the wrong clip, the one take that really went well.

Awkward as the Pixela software is, the player does work somewhat. I copy all the MTS files to a review folder on the hard drive, delete NOTHING from the card until I have reviewed, renamed, deleted bad takes (from the folder on the hard drive) and then when done with all that, have copied the material I will be trying to edit with to 2 external hard drives (that way I have what I need on 3 drives).

All of the renaming, deleting, etc is done from the "open file" dialog box in the Pixela player, a bad take is highlighted, and the delete key used. Both delete and rename can be done on a file while it is still playing in the player.

Couldn't be easier. That's all I use the Pixela software for, the editor is gosh-awful AWKWARD!

Then with all files from the shoot on 3 hard drives I reformat (long reformat) the card in the camera so the next time it is used I start out with it as clean as possible.

Ergonomics definitely isn't the best, I don't like the joystick for manual focus. But I do try to be some adaptable.

December 12th, 2008, 09:59 AM	#1
Alvin Kearney Tourist Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Chicagoland, USA Posts: 2	HF100 Playback Ergonomics are Poorly Thought Out Hi Folks, New member here. I've been lurking for about half a year while evaluating and purchasing my HF100. I appreciate all of the good advice on these forums. I am generally happy with the HF100, but I am struck by how poor the ergonomics are on clip playback and management. The main things that bug me are: 1) number of clicks required to view and delete a single clip == 12! this is crazy! I particularly object to having to click to confirm that the clip was deleted AFTER the deletion takes place. 2) when playing back clips, the system will automatically jump to the next clip with no visual indication. I would at least like to have the option to stop at the end of the clip with it still selected so that it can be deleted later. It really seems that what is needed is a way to quickly delete clips while in playback mode, without having to invoke the Function mode to access the delete option. I come from the Canon DSLR world where all of these functions are carefully thought out to minimize actions required; on my 40D I can review and delete images with 2 clicks per image, surely Canon could do better than 12 on the HF100. Sorry for venting, but I do feel better now. Am I missing some shortcuts that could improve on the playback ergonomics? I sure wish Canon would come out with a firmware upgrade that could fix some of these issues.

December 12th, 2008, 10:22 AM	#2
Jeff DeLamater Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Smyrna, GA Posts: 28	i agree. the playback system definitely could use some tweaking. for example, i just deleted a clip, why must i confirm that i want the now deleted clip from the playlist, even if it was never added to the playlist. and even if it was added the playlist, why would i want a reference to a non-existent clip in the playlist? and there is a sort of shortcut to get to the last video captured from the recording mode. click the nav stick, press left, and the last video captured will start playing, and you can then delete from there. still a bunch of steps. i'm actually fine with the delete being nested in the function menu, but after i click delete, make it one conf click, and be done with it. if there is some reason why you'd want to keep a ref in the playlist, make it an option in the setup screen, otherwise, just remove the deleted clip from the playlist. anyways, i feel your pain. but the short cut does help a bit. oh, and i think the word you were going for is "usability", not ergonomics. :)

December 12th, 2008, 10:51 AM	#3
Alvin Kearney Tourist Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Chicagoland, USA Posts: 2	the quick review thing does help in some circumstances, but typically I am shooting a whole bunch of clips in rapid sequence and do not have time to review them until after the event. a lot of the grief could be easily fixed in firmware, but I fear that Canon is concentrating on the next model instead. I take your point about "usability", but I think the ergonomics are integral to the problems. if I didn't have that fiddly little joystick to fuss with then I could at least rely on muscle memory to blast through the steps. instead I need to pay careful attention to each click and make sure it registers as I intend it to.

December 12th, 2008, 12:31 PM	#4
Jeff DeLamater Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Smyrna, GA Posts: 28	ok, i wasn't thinking of it in that sense. put that i way i can definitely see the ergonomics issue. i guess they figured most people would use that horrible pixela software to manage their clips. that software is so bad, i want some money back for even trying it :)

December 14th, 2008, 12:45 AM	#5
Bruce Foreman Trustee Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: San Angelo Texas Posts: 1,518	It may be best that it is a hassle to delete clips in playback mode. Imagine getting rushed or a bit confused and deleting the wrong clip, the one take that really went well. Awkward as the Pixela software is, the player does work somewhat. I copy all the MTS files to a review folder on the hard drive, delete NOTHING from the card until I have reviewed, renamed, deleted bad takes (from the folder on the hard drive) and then when done with all that, have copied the material I will be trying to edit with to 2 external hard drives (that way I have what I need on 3 drives). All of the renaming, deleting, etc is done from the "open file" dialog box in the Pixela player, a bad take is highlighted, and the delete key used. Both delete and rename can be done on a file while it is still playing in the player. Couldn't be easier. That's all I use the Pixela software for, the editor is gosh-awful AWKWARD! Then with all files from the shoot on 3 hard drives I reformat (long reformat) the card in the camera so the next time it is used I start out with it as clean as possible. Ergonomics definitely isn't the best, I don't like the joystick for manual focus. But I do try to be some adaptable.