Editing 30p from the HV-30? at DVinfo.net
DV Info Net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Canon EOS / MXF / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Canon XA and VIXIA Series AVCHD Camcorders > Canon VIXIA Series AVCHD and HDV Camcorders
Register FAQ Today's Posts Buyer's Guides

Canon VIXIA Series AVCHD and HDV Camcorders
For VIXIA / LEGRIA Series (HF G, HF S, HF and HV) consumer camcorders.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old April 9th, 2008, 01:35 PM   #1
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: SF, Ca
Posts: 421
Editing 30p from the HV-30?

Hey guys, what program will edit 30p shot with the HV-30? Windows or Mac side.....
__________________
Michael Struthers
www.buzzdigital.com
Michael Struthers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 9th, 2008, 03:02 PM   #2
Major Player
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 229
any NLE that can have 29.97fps progressive timeline should be able to do it. The problem is what do ya do with it after editing if trying to distribute via physical media...
Aaron Courtney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 9th, 2008, 04:01 PM   #3
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Saint Louis, Missouri
Posts: 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Courtney View Post
any NLE that can have 29.97fps progressive timeline should be able to do it. The problem is what do ya do with it after editing if trying to distribute via physical media...
What do you mean? Can't you render 30p to a standard DVD and play it on a standard DVD player.
John Hotze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 9th, 2008, 05:32 PM   #4
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Courtney View Post
any NLE that can have 29.97fps progressive timeline should be able to do it. The problem is what do ya do with it after editing if trying to distribute via physical media...

Your short, but interesting post three two questions:

1. Isn't the 29.97 timeline for SD rather, and 30p would refer to HDV or AVCHD high definition video?

2. How about downconverting to SD? Any problems with 30p?

3. Why should it be a problem to burn it to Blu-Ray? (for those few of us who already own a Blu-Ray player).

Thanks!
Sean James is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 9th, 2008, 10:29 PM   #5
Major Player
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 229
1. No, although I don't own a 30P cam, I'm 99.999% sure that you're going to see 29.97 fps in the video stream properties because it's technically still 60i (59.94 NTSC) video. What's different is that the entire frame was captured at the same instance in time (=progressive) by the imager and merely split into two fields, hence, 1080/60I output via HDMI with these cams.

2. SD vs. HD (i.e., resolution) is irrelevant. It's the frame rate for playback on NTSC equipment that is going to be problematic.

3. The problem is 1080/30P is not supported in the BDA spec. That means the BD player doesn't HAVE to properly display 30P video. You've only got 1080/24P and 1080/60i in there. Certainly, you're not going to flag your video as 24P - that would be a trainwreck. So you have to flag it as 60i and hope the player is using smart enough technology to ignore the flags and instead, correctly identify no interframe movement (meaning progressive frame) between the field A and field B and instead of using motion-adaptive de-interlacing algorithms, simply employs a weave and then frame doubles to get to 1080/60P (most common refresh rate for progressive displays in US).

IF that happens, you're going to get the purest IMO 1080P video available today. The problem is so few chipsets handle 30P video correctly. Read the reviews at the Secrets site for more info. This didn't stop NIN from releasing their BD video in 1080/30P (encoded, yet flagged as 1080/60I), however.
Aaron Courtney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 9th, 2008, 11:11 PM   #6
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Courtney View Post
3. The problem is 1080/30P is not supported in the BDA spec. That means the BD player doesn't HAVE to properly display 30P video. You've only got 1080/24P and 1080/60i in there. Certainly, you're not going to flag your video as 24P - that would be a trainwreck. So you have to flag it as 60i and hope the player is using smart enough technology to ignore the flags and instead, correctly identify no interframe movement (meaning progressive frame) between the field A and field B and instead of using motion-adaptive de-interlacing algorithms, simply employs a weave and then frame doubles to get to 1080/60P (most common refresh rate for progressive displays in US).

IF that happens, you're going to get the purest IMO 1080P video available today. The problem is so few chipsets handle 30P video correctly. Read the reviews at the Secrets site for more info. This didn't stop NIN from releasing their BD video in 1080/30P (encoded, yet flagged as 1080/60I), however.
With "BD player", are you referring to a Blu-Ray player? Or what does BD stand for? (I'm just getting into all this HiDef thing, and don't know some of those expressions that you are using with great ease).

What, please is the "secrets site", whose reviews you recommended? Could you post a link?

Thank you!
Sean James is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 10th, 2008, 12:02 AM   #7
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Bay Area, CA, USA
Posts: 348
Blu-Ray players can't playback 30p, which is somewhat stupid, as they can't do 60i so it's not so much of a resources problem (HD-DVD could do 30p, it was part of its standard).
Eugenia Loli-Queru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 10th, 2008, 01:49 AM   #8
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eugenia Loli-Queru View Post
Blu-Ray players can't playback 30p, which is somewhat stupid, as they can't do 60i so it's not so much of a resources problem (HD-DVD could do 30p, it was part of its standard).
So you need to convert 30p footage? Convert to what? Catholicism? :)
Sean James is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 10th, 2008, 02:08 AM   #9
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Victoria, BC
Posts: 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eugenia Loli-Queru View Post
Blu-Ray players can't playback 30p, which is somewhat stupid, as they can't do 60i so it's not so much of a resources problem (HD-DVD could do 30p, it was part of its standard).
Huh? So no 60i, and no 30P. What's left.. just 24P?
Christopher Ruffell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 10th, 2008, 10:39 AM   #10
Major Player
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 229
^^^yes, 1080/60i is CLEARLY in the BDA spec. Sean, BD stands for blu-ray disc. And yes, BD players CAN play back 30P video because in order for the disc to meet spec, it must be flagged as 60i. Yea, semantics. The problem, as alluded to prior, is that 30P is not found in the BDA spec so the video processing chipset manufacturers are not forced to program their technologies to correctly identify 30P video and process accordingly. It's clearly at their discretion and so far, few have chosen to correctly process 30P. Of course, if 30P was officially supported, then you'd merely flag the disc as 30P in which case the player would not have to detect 30P video. Instead it would simply rely on the flags to tell it to frame double to hit 60 Hz.

www.hometheaterhifi.com is a good place to read about these BD player tests. Kris Deering and crew really do a great job evaluating these players in a professional and unbiased fashion.
Aaron Courtney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 10th, 2008, 11:30 AM   #11
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Courtney View Post
^^^yes, 1080/60i is CLEARLY in the BDA spec. Sean, BD stands for blu-ray disc. And yes, BD players CAN play back 30P video because in order for the disc to meet spec, it must be flagged as 60i. Yea, semantics. The problem, as alluded to prior, is that 30P is not found in the BDA spec so the video processing chipset manufacturers are not forced to program their technologies to correctly identify 30P video and process accordingly. It's clearly at their discretion and so far, few have chosen to correctly process 30P. Of course, if 30P was officially supported, then you'd merely flag the disc as 30P in which case the player would not have to detect 30P video. Instead it would simply rely on the flags to tell it to frame double to hit 60 Hz.

www.hometheaterhifi.com is a good place to read about these BD player tests. Kris Deering and crew really do a great job evaluating these players in a professional and unbiased fashion.
Aaron, thanks for the link.

Too bad that "tomorrow's standard", Blu-Ray, leaves out important standards.
Sean James is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 10th, 2008, 11:42 AM   #12
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Los Angeles, USA
Posts: 2,114
I recently created a 29.97 DVD with 30F footage from Canon XH-A1. I work on a 30P timeline, encode to 30p MPEG-2 file. the last step, Encore can only author 29.97 interlace DVD. I still proceed.

The final DVD looks great. I was surprised. The quality is even better than other DVD I shot with GL2.
Taky Cheung is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 10th, 2008, 12:42 PM   #13
Major Player
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 229
Taky, I assume you're talking about a standard def DVD (so 480i/60). Also, what was you exact playback chain - DVD make/model, connection method, display make/model, and your specific player/display settings?
Aaron Courtney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 10th, 2008, 01:11 PM   #14
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Los Angeles, USA
Posts: 2,114
It's DVD. I'm not taking about BluRay nor HD DVD.

It's playback using a $30 Norcent DVD player I bought from walmart conect using component cable to my 42" plasma samsung HDTV.
Taky Cheung is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 10th, 2008, 01:15 PM   #15
Major Player
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 229
Which unit is doing the de-interlacing?
Aaron Courtney is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY USA

Scan Computers Int. Ltd.
+44 0871-472-4747
Bolton, Lancashire UK


DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Canon EOS / MXF / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Canon XA and VIXIA Series AVCHD Camcorders > Canon VIXIA Series AVCHD and HDV Camcorders


 



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:21 PM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2024 The Digital Video Information Network