Editing 30p from the HV-30?

[Michael Struthers]

Hey guys, what program will edit 30p shot with the HV-30? Windows or Mac side.....

[Aaron Courtney]

any NLE that can have 29.97fps progressive timeline should be able to do it. The problem is what do ya do with it after editing if trying to distribute via physical media...

[John Hotze]

Originally Posted by Aaron Courtney

any NLE that can have 29.97fps progressive timeline should be able to do it. The problem is what do ya do with it after editing if trying to distribute via physical media...

What do you mean? Can't you render 30p to a standard DVD and play it on a standard DVD player.

[Sean James]

Originally Posted by Aaron Courtney

any NLE that can have 29.97fps progressive timeline should be able to do it. The problem is what do ya do with it after editing if trying to distribute via physical media...

Your short, but interesting post three two questions:

1. Isn't the 29.97 timeline for SD rather, and 30p would refer to HDV or AVCHD high definition video?

2. How about downconverting to SD? Any problems with 30p?

3. Why should it be a problem to burn it to Blu-Ray? (for those few of us who already own a Blu-Ray player).

Thanks!

[Aaron Courtney]

1. No, although I don't own a 30P cam, I'm 99.999% sure that you're going to see 29.97 fps in the video stream properties because it's technically still 60i (59.94 NTSC) video. What's different is that the entire frame was captured at the same instance in time (=progressive) by the imager and merely split into two fields, hence, 1080/60I output via HDMI with these cams.

2. SD vs. HD (i.e., resolution) is irrelevant. It's the frame rate for playback on NTSC equipment that is going to be problematic.

3. The problem is 1080/30P is not supported in the BDA spec. That means the BD player doesn't HAVE to properly display 30P video. You've only got 1080/24P and 1080/60i in there. Certainly, you're not going to flag your video as 24P - that would be a trainwreck. So you have to flag it as 60i and hope the player is using smart enough technology to ignore the flags and instead, correctly identify no interframe movement (meaning progressive frame) between the field A and field B and instead of using motion-adaptive de-interlacing algorithms, simply employs a weave and then frame doubles to get to 1080/60P (most common refresh rate for progressive displays in US).

IF that happens, you're going to get the purest IMO 1080P video available today. The problem is so few chipsets handle 30P video correctly. Read the reviews at the Secrets site for more info. This didn't stop NIN from releasing their BD video in 1080/30P (encoded, yet flagged as 1080/60I), however.

[Sean James]

Originally Posted by Aaron Courtney

3. The problem is 1080/30P is not supported in the BDA spec. That means the BD player doesn't HAVE to properly display 30P video. You've only got 1080/24P and 1080/60i in there. Certainly, you're not going to flag your video as 24P - that would be a trainwreck. So you have to flag it as 60i and hope the player is using smart enough technology to ignore the flags and instead, correctly identify no interframe movement (meaning progressive frame) between the field A and field B and instead of using motion-adaptive de-interlacing algorithms, simply employs a weave and then frame doubles to get to 1080/60P (most common refresh rate for progressive displays in US).

IF that happens, you're going to get the purest IMO 1080P video available today. The problem is so few chipsets handle 30P video correctly. Read the reviews at the Secrets site for more info. This didn't stop NIN from releasing their BD video in 1080/30P (encoded, yet flagged as 1080/60I), however.

With "BD player", are you referring to a Blu-Ray player? Or what does BD stand for? (I'm just getting into all this HiDef thing, and don't know some of those expressions that you are using with great ease).

What, please is the "secrets site", whose reviews you recommended? Could you post a link?

Thank you!

[Eugenia Loli-Queru]

Blu-Ray players can't playback 30p, which is somewhat stupid, as they can't do 60i so it's not so much of a resources problem (HD-DVD could do 30p, it was part of its standard).

[Sean James]

Originally Posted by Eugenia Loli-Queru

Blu-Ray players can't playback 30p, which is somewhat stupid, as they can't do 60i so it's not so much of a resources problem (HD-DVD could do 30p, it was part of its standard).

So you need to convert 30p footage? Convert to what? Catholicism? :)

[Christopher Ruffell]

Originally Posted by Eugenia Loli-Queru

Blu-Ray players can't playback 30p, which is somewhat stupid, as they can't do 60i so it's not so much of a resources problem (HD-DVD could do 30p, it was part of its standard).

Huh? So no 60i, and no 30P. What's left.. just 24P?

[Aaron Courtney]

^^^yes, 1080/60i is CLEARLY in the BDA spec. Sean, BD stands for blu-ray disc. And yes, BD players CAN play back 30P video because in order for the disc to meet spec, it must be flagged as 60i. Yea, semantics. The problem, as alluded to prior, is that 30P is not found in the BDA spec so the video processing chipset manufacturers are not forced to program their technologies to correctly identify 30P video and process accordingly. It's clearly at their discretion and so far, few have chosen to correctly process 30P. Of course, if 30P was officially supported, then you'd merely flag the disc as 30P in which case the player would not have to detect 30P video. Instead it would simply rely on the flags to tell it to frame double to hit 60 Hz.

www.hometheaterhifi.com is a good place to read about these BD player tests. Kris Deering and crew really do a great job evaluating these players in a professional and unbiased fashion.

[Sean James]

Originally Posted by Aaron Courtney

^^^yes, 1080/60i is CLEARLY in the BDA spec. Sean, BD stands for blu-ray disc. And yes, BD players CAN play back 30P video because in order for the disc to meet spec, it must be flagged as 60i. Yea, semantics. The problem, as alluded to prior, is that 30P is not found in the BDA spec so the video processing chipset manufacturers are not forced to program their technologies to correctly identify 30P video and process accordingly. It's clearly at their discretion and so far, few have chosen to correctly process 30P. Of course, if 30P was officially supported, then you'd merely flag the disc as 30P in which case the player would not have to detect 30P video. Instead it would simply rely on the flags to tell it to frame double to hit 60 Hz.

www.hometheaterhifi.com is a good place to read about these BD player tests. Kris Deering and crew really do a great job evaluating these players in a professional and unbiased fashion.

Aaron, thanks for the link.

Too bad that "tomorrow's standard", Blu-Ray, leaves out important standards.

[Taky Cheung]

I recently created a 29.97 DVD with 30F footage from Canon XH-A1. I work on a 30P timeline, encode to 30p MPEG-2 file. the last step, Encore can only author 29.97 interlace DVD. I still proceed.

The final DVD looks great. I was surprised. The quality is even better than other DVD I shot with GL2.

[Aaron Courtney]

Taky, I assume you're talking about a standard def DVD (so 480i/60). Also, what was you exact playback chain - DVD make/model, connection method, display make/model, and your specific player/display settings?

[Taky Cheung]

It's DVD. I'm not taking about BluRay nor HD DVD.

It's playback using a $30 Norcent DVD player I bought from walmart conect using component cable to my 42" plasma samsung HDTV.

[Aaron Courtney]

Which unit is doing the de-interlacing?