From HV20's HDMI port to VGA monitor- Your opinion at DVinfo.net

Daniel Apollon · March 9th, 2008, 05:28 AM

Thank you Delaney for giving an excellent thread where you show how to tap the HV20's component output using a Mayflash Component -->VGA (UXGA) linear transcoder.

The Mayflash + Xenarc 700TSV solution seems to work nice but may not apply to many monitors, not even the newer Xenarc 700YV model. Before jumping on the Mayflash solution, you should read the detailed discussion on the AVS Forum !

I have therefore started to explore another track:
I bought the HDFury which provides HD(720p)&Full HD(1080p) Digital Input (HDCP/HDMI) to any Analog RGB display !. The setup used is starting from the HV20:

1. optional: HV20 HDMI Output =>HDMI Splicer
2. optional:HDMI Splicer output 1 ==> male to male HDMI CABLE or HV20 HDMI OUT ==> male HDMI CABLE
3. Pure AV HDMI to DVI adapter or equivalent HDMI to DVI Cable
3. HDFury DVI ==>VGA
4. Short VGA DSUB Cable into TFT Monitor

There is a problem, which I suspect is linked with the HDCP handshaking (HDCP is a real offense to consumers !) between the monitor and the (filtered) 1080p@24f signal from the camera: the signal coming out of the VGA cable is downscaled to 640x480 pixels. I happens with all the monitors I have tried until now (let's wait till I get my Xenarc 700TSV)

On the 24" Viewsonic Full HD, connecting the HV20 HDMI to the monitor HDMI input gives a superb full HD picture. However all my test attempt to tap the HD signal HDMI to VGA /UXGA 1080p24f have until now punished been with ugly downscaling.

Do you guys agree this is the evil work of HDCP ? Do you know any way around ?

Should I give up any hope of tapping the pristine HDMI 1080p signal ??

Igor Babic · March 9th, 2008, 07:06 AM

Why are you using HDMI splicer, you need two HDMI outs?
Does HDfury transcode fps rate, you say, you are using 24f so you have NTSC model of HV20 and this gives you 60i or 60p output? Please be more specific.

I am sorry but I don't quite understand what are all your setup setting are and I am VERY interesting in this converter since year a go come up (HDfury) but have not enough time to experiment.

Daniel Apollon · March 9th, 2008, 02:16 PM

Thanks Igor for the remarks. The HDMI splicier is of course optional. You'll need it only if you want an additional HDMI out port. If not you can plug directly into the HV20 HDMI port a male HDMI to DVI cable. I have updated my first post to avoid misunderstanding concerning the splicer issue :-)

I use a NTSC HV20 outputting a 60i stream (should be 1080i out of the HDMI port also when one is shooting 24p HDV Cinema ?? or.... any opinion out there.... 1080p@24f).

Igor, my setup is the setup recommended by HDFury.com to convert a 1080p signal from a HDMI port to a 1080p/1080i signal to a D-SUB VGA monitor. My setup works actually ... but the signal output to the VGA panel is downgraded to a 640x480 picture which is a much lower pixel resolution than the tested monitors' maximum physical resolution, which is much higher. I suspect therefore that the HDFury might be penalized somewhere by the HDCP decoding procedure (by the HV20? by the HDFury? by the monitor??).

In a couple of days I will receive the Xenarc 700TSV which I ordered from the USA. It might work perhaps smoothly with this monitor, which has a max resolution of 1600x1200 (UXGA).

My goal is to have a field monitor for my HV20+ Brevis Flip combo with the best possible resolution (better btw than Delaney's component out to UXGA which I use on my SONY HVR-Z1U) without forking out thousands of $$ in a HD monitor.

All this conversion stuff may seem complicated to some of you, I know :-)

Igor Babic · March 10th, 2008, 04:11 AM

Thanks. It is not that complicated. Did you try without HDMI splicer? HDfury is not so common in video world, it is much widely used in ps3 and projectors world. Can you try hdfury on standard crt monitor at 1600x1200? As I understand HDfury passes signal in same resolution and frame rate to DVI/RGB monitor. Are you shure that you can connect Xenarc to it, given that HV20 gives 1920x1080? I have PAL HV20 so I suspect that there is still no small HDMI solution for this.

Daniel Apollon · March 10th, 2008, 12:06 PM

Yes, Igor, I have tried without splicer with the same disappointed results (1080p displayed as 640x480 on the VGA side).

A quick loog at HDFury.com's FAQ says that:
-"The HDfury is a tiny external add-on adapter that is used to add a digital DVI/HDMI input to older display devices without digital inputs so that the newest sources such as HD-DVD/Blu-ray players can used.It is connected to any RGB display through the SUB-D HD15 (VGA) Female Input or RGBHV BNC inputs using an optional extender cable. Once in place the HDfury performs HDCP decryption and HDMI to RGB conversion. You can then connect any HDMI source in full HD 1080p directly to your now "enhanced" display!"
-"The HDfury does not change the resolution or refresh rate in any way. It simply converts the digital input signal to an analog RGBHV (VGA) signal. It also provides HDCP decryption if needed. The HDfury outputs whatever resolution you feed it. Absolutely nothing is changed. In other words, if you feed the HDFury a 720p/60Hz digital signal the only thing it will output is a 720p/60Hz analog signal. Feed the HDfury a 1080p/60Hz signal and it'll output a 1080p/60Hz signal... and so on."
- "All the picture’s chain from source to display must be HDCP compliant in order to display anything in 720p or 1080p:"
- VGA (analog) displays: "f you hook up a HD-DVD player, Blu-Ray player, PS3 or a HDMI graphic card, video will be downscaled to 520k at “best”, 960x540 instead of 1920x1080 !! (DVD = 720 x 576p = 415K PAL/SECAM or 720 x 480p = 346 K NTSC )"
- The display should be HDCP compliant

Igor Babic · March 11th, 2008, 04:57 AM

If I understand right, you cant connect this to Xenarc because your HV20 cannot give right resolution? I hope you know better than me.

Daniel Apollon · March 11th, 2008, 07:48 AM

Igor, I will test the Xenarc 700TSV solution tomorrow. I'll let you know

Daniel Apollon · March 14th, 2008, 07:00 AM

As promised, I test the HDFury setup described in my opening post in this thread.The verdict is: it works perfectly ! The 1080i signal from the HV20 is correctly downscaled to the monitor's native resolution of 800x480. No HDCP handshaking issue.
I compared the picture with the Sony z1U->Component out 576p/576i->of the MayFlash Component to VGA Transcoder->Xenarc 700TSV.
The picture are roughly equivalent, with a little bit more sharpness, stability, and resolution in the HV20HDFUry solution.
The slightly better results of the HV20 solution may be due to a purer 1080isignal + the better native resolution of the HV20. The slightly, only slightly worse results of the Sony Z1U+Mayflash solution may be due to the fact that component signals are analogue and that the Z1U picture has less resolution than the HV20.
The Xenarc 700TSV solution is in my opinion, the best field monitor value for the money you can achieve before forking out 4000 USD for a Marshall HD field monitor.

Igor Babic · March 14th, 2008, 01:38 PM

This is great Info! Who is downscaler in this scenario, HDfury or Xenarc? Xenarc max res is 1600x1200, How this is possible... Do you think that this could work for PAL, can you check some how?

How you powering HDfury, is HDMI from HV20 gives enough juice to power it or you need external power adapter? Can you show photo of your setup like how it looks all your cabling in terms of practical using it?

Sorry for so much questions...

Daniel Apollon · March 14th, 2008, 04:59 PM

Igor, the 1600 x 1200 display possibility on this monitor is ONLY some upscaling from native 800x480. So this monitor will never resolve more than 800x480. However the HDFury setup is enough in my view to focus tack sharp.

Randy Panado · April 26th, 2008, 02:06 AM

So purchasing a Xenarc 700TSV + HDfury.com's cable will allow me to plug and play into my HV20 (or even XH-A1) and be able to focus accurately?

Sorry for the blatantly noobish question, it's late and I'm super tired :S.

Buy these things :

1) http://dynamixcomputers.com/xenarc700tsv.html
2) http://www.monoprice.com/products/se...hdfury&x=0&y=0

Throw them together, and I should be fine? I'm sure I'll look at this thread again in the morning and it'll make sense. hehe

Thanks for the great research so far!

EDIT : Forgot to ask about power. Did you ever find out how to power this thing Igor?

March 9th, 2008, 05:28 AM	#1
Daniel Apollon Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Norway & France Posts: 50	From HV20's HDMI port to VGA monitor- Your opinion Thank you Delaney for giving an excellent thread where you show how to tap the HV20's component output using a Mayflash Component -->VGA (UXGA) linear transcoder. The Mayflash + Xenarc 700TSV solution seems to work nice but may not apply to many monitors, not even the newer Xenarc 700YV model. Before jumping on the Mayflash solution, you should read the detailed discussion on the AVS Forum ! I have therefore started to explore another track: I bought the HDFury which provides HD(720p)&Full HD(1080p) Digital Input (HDCP/HDMI) to any Analog RGB display !. The setup used is starting from the HV20: 1. optional: HV20 HDMI Output =>HDMI Splicer 2. optional:HDMI Splicer output 1 ==> male to male HDMI CABLE or HV20 HDMI OUT ==> male HDMI CABLE 3. Pure AV HDMI to DVI adapter or equivalent HDMI to DVI Cable 3. HDFury DVI ==>VGA 4. Short VGA DSUB Cable into TFT Monitor There is a problem, which I suspect is linked with the HDCP handshaking (HDCP is a real offense to consumers !) between the monitor and the (filtered) 1080p@24f signal from the camera: the signal coming out of the VGA cable is downscaled to 640x480 pixels. I happens with all the monitors I have tried until now (let's wait till I get my Xenarc 700TSV) On the 24" Viewsonic Full HD, connecting the HV20 HDMI to the monitor HDMI input gives a superb full HD picture. However all my test attempt to tap the HD signal HDMI to VGA /UXGA 1080p24f have until now punished been with ugly downscaling. Do you guys agree this is the evil work of HDCP ? Do you know any way around ? Should I give up any hope of tapping the pristine HDMI 1080p signal ??

March 9th, 2008, 07:06 AM	#2
Igor Babic Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Zagreb, Croatia Posts: 171	Be more specific Why are you using HDMI splicer, you need two HDMI outs? Does HDfury transcode fps rate, you say, you are using 24f so you have NTSC model of HV20 and this gives you 60i or 60p output? Please be more specific. I am sorry but I don't quite understand what are all your setup setting are and I am VERY interesting in this converter since year a go come up (HDfury) but have not enough time to experiment.

March 9th, 2008, 02:16 PM	#3
Daniel Apollon Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Norway & France Posts: 50	More specifically.... Thanks Igor for the remarks. The HDMI splicier is of course optional. You'll need it only if you want an additional HDMI out port. If not you can plug directly into the HV20 HDMI port a male HDMI to DVI cable. I have updated my first post to avoid misunderstanding concerning the splicer issue :-) I use a NTSC HV20 outputting a 60i stream (should be 1080i out of the HDMI port also when one is shooting 24p HDV Cinema ?? or.... any opinion out there.... 1080p@24f). Igor, my setup is the setup recommended by HDFury.com to convert a 1080p signal from a HDMI port to a 1080p/1080i signal to a D-SUB VGA monitor. My setup works actually ... but the signal output to the VGA panel is downgraded to a 640x480 picture which is a much lower pixel resolution than the tested monitors' maximum physical resolution, which is much higher. I suspect therefore that the HDFury might be penalized somewhere by the HDCP decoding procedure (by the HV20? by the HDFury? by the monitor??). In a couple of days I will receive the Xenarc 700TSV which I ordered from the USA. It might work perhaps smoothly with this monitor, which has a max resolution of 1600x1200 (UXGA). My goal is to have a field monitor for my HV20+ Brevis Flip combo with the best possible resolution (better btw than Delaney's component out to UXGA which I use on my SONY HVR-Z1U) without forking out thousands of $$ in a HD monitor. All this conversion stuff may seem complicated to some of you, I know :-) Last edited by Daniel Apollon; March 9th, 2008 at 04:35 PM. Reason: typos as usual.....

March 10th, 2008, 12:06 PM	#5
Daniel Apollon Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Norway & France Posts: 50	HDM Splicer and other issues Yes, Igor, I have tried without splicer with the same disappointed results (1080p displayed as 640x480 on the VGA side). A quick loog at HDFury.com's FAQ says that: -"The HDfury is a tiny external add-on adapter that is used to add a digital DVI/HDMI input to older display devices without digital inputs so that the newest sources such as HD-DVD/Blu-ray players can used.It is connected to any RGB display through the SUB-D HD15 (VGA) Female Input or RGBHV BNC inputs using an optional extender cable. Once in place the HDfury performs HDCP decryption and HDMI to RGB conversion. You can then connect any HDMI source in full HD 1080p directly to your now "enhanced" display!" -"The HDfury does not change the resolution or refresh rate in any way. It simply converts the digital input signal to an analog RGBHV (VGA) signal. It also provides HDCP decryption if needed. The HDfury outputs whatever resolution you feed it. Absolutely nothing is changed. In other words, if you feed the HDFury a 720p/60Hz digital signal the only thing it will output is a 720p/60Hz analog signal. Feed the HDfury a 1080p/60Hz signal and it'll output a 1080p/60Hz signal... and so on." - "All the picture’s chain from source to display must be HDCP compliant in order to display anything in 720p or 1080p:" - VGA (analog) displays: "f you hook up a HD-DVD player, Blu-Ray player, PS3 or a HDMI graphic card, video will be downscaled to 520k at “best”, 960x540 instead of 1920x1080 !! (DVD = 720 x 576p = 415K PAL/SECAM or 720 x 480p = 346 K NTSC )" - The display should be HDCP compliant

March 11th, 2008, 07:48 AM	#7
Daniel Apollon Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Norway & France Posts: 50	Xenarc Igor, I will test the Xenarc 700TSV solution tomorrow. I'll let you know

March 10th, 2008, 04:11 AM	#4
Igor Babic Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Zagreb, Croatia Posts: 171	Thanks. It is not that complicated. Did you try without HDMI splicer? HDfury is not so common in video world, it is much widely used in ps3 and projectors world. Can you try hdfury on standard crt monitor at 1600x1200? As I understand HDfury passes signal in same resolution and frame rate to DVI/RGB monitor. Are you shure that you can connect Xenarc to it, given that HV20 gives 1920x1080? I have PAL HV20 so I suspect that there is still no small HDMI solution for this.

March 11th, 2008, 04:57 AM	#6
Igor Babic Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Zagreb, Croatia Posts: 171	If I understand right, you cant connect this to Xenarc because your HV20 cannot give right resolution? I hope you know better than me.

March 14th, 2008, 07:00 AM	#8
Daniel Apollon Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Norway & France Posts: 50	HV20 - HDFury - Xenarc700TSV works nice! As promised, I test the HDFury setup described in my opening post in this thread.The verdict is: it works perfectly ! The 1080i signal from the HV20 is correctly downscaled to the monitor's native resolution of 800x480. No HDCP handshaking issue. I compared the picture with the Sony z1U->Component out 576p/576i->of the MayFlash Component to VGA Transcoder->Xenarc 700TSV. The picture are roughly equivalent, with a little bit more sharpness, stability, and resolution in the HV20HDFUry solution. The slightly better results of the HV20 solution may be due to a purer 1080isignal + the better native resolution of the HV20. The slightly, only slightly worse results of the Sony Z1U+Mayflash solution may be due to the fact that component signals are analogue and that the Z1U picture has less resolution than the HV20. The Xenarc 700TSV solution is in my opinion, the best field monitor value for the money you can achieve before forking out 4000 USD for a Marshall HD field monitor.

March 14th, 2008, 01:38 PM	#9
Igor Babic Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Zagreb, Croatia Posts: 171	This is great Info! Who is downscaler in this scenario, HDfury or Xenarc? Xenarc max res is 1600x1200, How this is possible... Do you think that this could work for PAL, can you check some how? How you powering HDfury, is HDMI from HV20 gives enough juice to power it or you need external power adapter? Can you show photo of your setup like how it looks all your cabling in terms of practical using it? Sorry for so much questions... Last edited by Igor Babic; March 14th, 2008 at 02:57 PM. Reason: More questions

March 14th, 2008, 04:59 PM	#10
Daniel Apollon Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Norway & France Posts: 50	Xenarc 700TSV native resolution is "only" 800x480 Igor, the 1600 x 1200 display possibility on this monitor is ONLY some upscaling from native 800x480. So this monitor will never resolve more than 800x480. However the HDFury setup is enough in my view to focus tack sharp.

April 26th, 2008, 02:06 AM	#11
Randy Panado Major Player Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 643	So purchasing a Xenarc 700TSV + HDfury.com's cable will allow me to plug and play into my HV20 (or even XH-A1) and be able to focus accurately? Sorry for the blatantly noobish question, it's late and I'm super tired :S. Buy these things : 1) http://dynamixcomputers.com/xenarc700tsv.html 2) http://www.monoprice.com/products/se...hdfury&x=0&y=0 Throw them together, and I should be fine? I'm sure I'll look at this thread again in the morning and it'll make sense. hehe Thanks for the great research so far! EDIT : Forgot to ask about power. Did you ever find out how to power this thing Igor?