$750 for CanonHG10 - should I switch from HV20?

[Brian Boyko]

You know, I've got it here in front of me, package open and all connected and - to tell you the honest truth... I gotta say, I'm thinking about returning it.

Maybe I just got a bad batch of tapes on the HV20, and that switching back to the TDKs would fix the problem for me - no sweat. If that's the case, it's... tempting to go back to the HV20 full time.

There are some things that seriously annoy me about the HG10 that I couldn't figure out until I had it in my hands.

1) Loss of audio control. Seriously, Canon. What were you thinking?

2) Focus (i.AF/MF) is now stuck in a submenu instead of a one-button flip. When my footage is blurry I need it sharp -now-, thank you. Seriously, Canon. What were you thinking?

3) The AVCHD files won't work on my work PC without conversion; this is one thing I was hoping to avoid. (I thought they were stock AVC/H.264 files, I was wrong.) At work I'm still on Premiere Elements 3.0 - that's all I need, really. One of the advantages I was hoping for was being able to drop and drag the files from the hard drive to the computer, without requiring extra time for conversion.

4) No Standard Definition Recording. Sometimes, you just need SD, and I'd rather not waste the cycles on processing HD if I don't have to.

5) No capability to take photos onto the hard drive - only onto a Mini SD card. I HAVE a MiniSD card, but I wanted to leave it in my HV20...

The ultimate problem, of course, is that the HV20 produces dropouts. I'm going to try recording my TV for an hour in 60i HDV mode on the HV20 on the TDK tapes. If it doesn't drop a frame, I gotta say, as much as I'm looking forward to tapeless, this thing looks like more trouble than it's worth - and I got this thing becuase it was supposed to be LESS trouble to deal with than the HV20.

[Chris Hurd]

Originally Posted by Brian Boyko

...things that seriously annoy me about the HG10 that I couldn't figure out until I had it in my hands.

I don't understand. Everything you mention has been covered right here on this forum. Why didn't you do any research on this before you bought it? It's difficult to sympathize with you because we've gone over all of these points in detail right here on this site. Sorry, Brian, you can't say we didn't tell you so. It's mission-critical to read DV Info Net before making this kind of purchase decision. That way you would have known all of this -- all five points that you mention above -- before buying it and taking it home.

[Brian Boyko]

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

I don't understand. Everything you mention has been covered right here on this forum. Why didn't you do any research on this before you bought it? It's difficult to sympathize with you because we've gone over all of these points in detail right here on this site. Sorry, Brian, you can't say we didn't tell you so. It's mission-critical to read DV Info Net before making this kind of purchase decision. That way you would have known all of this -- all five points that you mention above -- before buying it and taking it home.

Well, Chris, yes, everything has been mentioned in this forum. In 12 different threads. In a seperate post in each of those threads.

All the information was there but it wasn't organized.

If you want, I could help you get together a Wikia Wiki or something, edited by the forum members so that all the information on each camera is available in one place.

-- Brian.

[Chris Hurd]

Of course you are right about that, and thanks for the offer Brian. As a one-man band it's pretty darn difficult to gather and correlate all this information. I'm not fond of wikis, but I have been kicking around an idea for a review page template (page or pages per camcorder). We can make it community-driven, like a wiki in that regard, but with the appearance of a formal review page, like we've done before here on DV Info Net:

http://www.dvinfo.net/articles/camsupport/fibertec1.php

http://www.dvinfo.net/canonxl2/articles/article06.php

http://www.dvinfo.net/articles/lighting/ikans400d.php

http://www.dvinfo.net/canon/articles/article82.php

http://www.dvinfo.net/canon/articles/article58.php

...along those lines. I understand how hard it is to glean everything from just the forum if you're not sitting on it every day like I am (but I have an excuse; this is my life).

[Dave Blackhurst]

It's all here, and good reading (far more accurate than the "insta-review" sites), but I know until you actually put hands on a piece of equipment for yourself it's hard to KNOW whether you can live with specific issues or not.

As much as the HV20 is loved and recommended, I had to put hands on it to find that I couldn't get past the build quality and the odd noises that transmitted to the mics - just too much creaking and clicking and squeaking for me... but it's still a fine camera for the money - for others, not me... and yes I read ALL the other people calling attention to the issues before I decided to try the cam anyway!


I ultimately went with the HC7... and now I've started to use the little Sony CX7 - and it has limitations, but the positive points outweigh the negatives... less control, the AVCHD related things, no VF, had to hack the LANC port (more control!!), but in the end it is such a well designed little camera I can live with it, it's SOOO easy to take everywhere, the quality to my eye is as good or better than the comparable HDV cam, and I'm really motivated to say goodby to tapes as much as is feasible - I can be editing before the first tape is dumped...



You may need to take a few days with the new cam and see whether there are workarounds that will meet your needs, or if one thing or another is a "deal breaker".

Ultimately every cam has it's good points and bad, and unless they completely prevent you from shooting great video, go shoot!

Short version... nothing is perfect. Shoot what ya got!

[Brian Boyko]

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

Of course you are right about that, and thanks for the offer Brian. As a one-man band it's pretty darn difficult to gather and correlate all this information. I'm not fond of wikis, but I have been kicking around an idea for a review page template (page or pages per camcorder). We can make it community-driven, like a wiki in that regard, but with the appearance of a formal review page, like we've done before here on DV Info Net:

http://www.dvinfo.net/articles/camsupport/fibertec1.php

http://www.dvinfo.net/canonxl2/articles/article06.php

http://www.dvinfo.net/articles/lighting/ikans400d.php

http://www.dvinfo.net/canon/articles/article82.php

http://www.dvinfo.net/canon/articles/article58.php

...along those lines. I understand how hard it is to glean everything from just the forum if you're not sitting on it every day like I am (but I have an excuse; this is my life).

Don't get me wrong. Without Dvinfo.net, I simply would not be able to do the projects that I'm doing. I'm certainly at the "little knowledge is dangerous" stage, but we all have to start somewhere, and you and the rest of the guys here are helping me get off to a great start.

[Tracy Evans]

I just took delivery on an HG-10 today. I was trying to hold out until May for the HF-100, but I am starting a new podcast and needed it now.

I did a lot of research, but I missed the fact that the AVCHD files needed to be converted to another format to edit!?! Can someone point me toward that post?

[Brian Boyko]

Originally Posted by Tracy Evans

I just took delivery on an HG-10 today. I was trying to hold out until May for the HF-100, but I am starting a new podcast and needed it now.

I did a lot of research, but I missed the fact that the AVCHD files needed to be converted to another format to edit!?! Can someone point me toward that post?

I haven't tried it out on my Mac (and FCP 6.0 has support for the files natively) but on my PC, I realized that I didn't have native support for AVCHD through Quicktime)

[Brian W. Smith]

Originally Posted by Tracy Evans

I just took delivery on an HG-10 today. I was trying to hold out until May for the HF-100, but I am starting a new podcast and needed it now.

I did a lot of research, but I missed the fact that the AVCHD files needed to be converted to another format to edit!?! Can someone point me toward that post?

Pinnacle Studio 11 does it natively.

[Brian Boyko]

Originally Posted by Brian Smith

Pinnacle Studio 11 does it natively.

Indeed, but if Pinnacle Studio isn't your preferred NLE...

[Steve Maller]

Originally Posted by Christopher Ruffell

Steve, it can! At least the way I do it, which is a two step process. I a) start by importing the footage as regular footage, 60i with 24P inside, then b) run it through my custom setting in compressor converting it to ProRes with an reverse telcine added to get 24P. Maybe you already do it this way, and would like it easier, but this seems to work well for me.

Yes, that's what I'm referring to. I would prefer if the reverse telecine could happen at import time instead of as a second step. Among other things, the ProRes-encoded video files are enormous, and you temporarily need two of them whilst the Telecine operation is going.

[Aaron Courtney]

Originally Posted by Brian Boyko

Indeed, but if Pinnacle Studio isn't your preferred NLE...

LOL, then use Vegas or Edius. All of the popular NLE's are going to handle AVCHD footage pretty soon, I believe.

[Pascal Canning]

I got my camera (Hg10) last week but have been too busy to try out most of the features.
The clips I have taken so far were fantastic direct to the TV via component (I dont have the mini hdmi yet).

With regards to not being able to edit natively. I was able to do it with ulead studio 11. It needed the ulead free update to recognize the mts file. But I was able to edit it on a laptop that is 18 months old. ulead 11 allows conversion to many formats/codecs (but I dont see quicktime h.264).

I also made an avchd disc (as a test) and was able to play it in WinDVD 8. This can be a stopgap till I get a Blu-ray burner.

Didnt try the 24p mode but from my research beforehand I beleive Chris is right, and that article you refer to is BS

Pascal

[Pascal Canning]

Originally Posted by Pascal Canning

Didnt try the 24p mode

Pascal

Nor will I in the near future, as mine is a PAL camera. LOL

So this means I will have no pulldown problems, I presume? 25p into 50 is exactly 2.

[Colin Gould]

Originally Posted by Brian Boyko

You know, I've got it here in front of me, package open and all connected and - to tell you the honest truth... I gotta say, I'm thinking about returning it.

Maybe I just got a bad batch of tapes on the HV20, and that switching back to the TDKs would fix the problem for me - no sweat. If that's the case, it's... tempting to go back to the HV20 full time.

...

The ultimate problem, of course, is that the HV20 produces dropouts. I'm going to try recording my TV for an hour in 60i HDV mode on the HV20 on the TDK tapes. If it doesn't drop a frame, I gotta say, as much as I'm looking forward to tapeless, this thing looks like more trouble than it's worth - and I got this thing becuase it was supposed to be LESS trouble to deal with than the HV20.

I've recorded 30+hours on my HV10 over the last year or so, and while I haven't painstakingly played back every tape to check for dropouts, I have rarely/never noticed any dropouts on playback or capture... I'm using plain TDK DVM60 tapes. I never had any noticeable dropouts w/ TDK on my Optura Pi either, have over 60hrs on there... only time was when I switched to using a couple Sony and Panasonic tapes on a vacation trip, but also in extremely humid/wet conditions (Hawaii waterfall/volcano). I concur that WAS extremely frustrating.

YMMV of course, and sounds like you've had rough mileage w/ your tapes/HV20.... just trying to list other experience. Don't know if the HV20 is worse than HV10 in this regard.
Enjoy either one or both in the meantime!