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#1 |
New Boot
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Manhattan
Posts: 15
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Final Cut 6.0.2 and HV20 Workflow - Questions about Supposed 1080-24f Easy Setups.
Hello
My first post on the forum. I am a fairly new HV20 user, and have some workflow questions regarding Final Cut 6.0.2 wrt the HV20 - forgive me if this is answered elsewhere, I could not find a definitive answer concerning FCP 6.0.2s newer easy setups. Short version - is it possible with FCP 6.0.2 to capture to a format (ProRes/HVD/AIC etc - I dont care) - but use log and capture AND get reverse telecine while capturing? I would expect this to be possible with interframe codecs like AIC/ProRes, not HDV with its long frame cruft. I am aware of the reverse telecine process that must be applied to properly conform footage shot at cannons 1080p24 mode, and I am also aware that apparently the HV20 does not add cadence metadata to the video stream, so your reverse telecine software must have cadence detection and all that fun jazz (a la compressor). With Final Cut 6.0.2 the release notes it mentions support for Cannons 24f mode with the easy setups as follows: http://www.apple.com/support/release.../doc/uid/link2 (from here). **** HDV Workflow Improvements The following HDV Easy Setups should be used specifically for capturing footage in Canon HDV 1080F24, 1080F25, and 1080F30 formats: HDV - 1080p24 FireWire Basic HDV - 1080p25 FireWire Basic HDV - 1080p30 FireWire Basic **** Does this mean one no longer needs to use the HV20 workflow describe by Apple ?(http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=306389) Ive shot some material @ 1080p24 on my HV20, and tried three workflows as follows: A) HDV 1080i60 FW Basic -> ProRes via Compressor Rev Telecine B) HDV 1080p24 Firewire Basic (new in 6.0.2) C) HDV - Apple ProRes 422 1080p24 (new in 6.0.2 - but mentions only the Sony HVR-V1) My results are rather... interesting, so I feel I must be missing something basic about the new 6.0.2 improvements. With the "traditional" workflow "A", I can log and capture and then transcode my material just fine. It seems to remove the pulldown as expected. I just dont want to spend the time capturing and transcoding :( For reference, every 5th frame in the viewer in FCP before conversion is doubled up. With workflow "B" I have captured a 29.97fps HDV movie, which has no pulldown removal as far as I can tell, every 5th frame shows the typical ghosted double frame ( like so http://www.flickr.com/photos/missilemike/494788313/ ) if I view in QT player of the viewer. When I put this clip into a sequence created with the B easy setup, I am asked if I want to change my sequence from 23.98 to 29.97, which, uh, is not what I want to do. Selecting no gives me the nice little preview green line above my clip. *mutter*. However it seems to playback ok? With workflow "C" its basically the same as workflow "B", but I have a ProRes encoded clip @ 29.97, with every 5th frame doubled (if i view in QT/or the viewer) , and I also am queried about changing my sequence setting. The other annoyance is that I was not able to log and capture, but presented with a window to name my clip, and then FCP just started doing 'capture now' (essentially). However, with B and C it *seems* like it plays fine in the sequence if I tell it not to change anything? I'd love a bit of clarification about this. It seems like the sequence is properly skipping the redundant frames at 23.98. What are others experiences with 6.0.2? What is the point of the 1080 24f support in 6.0.2 - does the HV20 shoot at this 24f mode ( does this refer to Cannons lack of metadata cadence info)? There is no way to capture at a true 23.98 framerate from an easy setup? Thanks! Im a bit confused! (can you tell? :) ) |
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#2 |
Regular Crew
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Springfield, US
Posts: 63
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I believe these workflow improvements are for the pro line of Canon camcorders, like the XL A1 and H1. Those cameras use the 1080F24/25/30 naming system, which are actually 1080p recordings.
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#3 |
New Boot
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Manhattan
Posts: 15
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Thanks Ian, that seems to clear up the issue for the easy setups, anyone know about the workflow questions?
So the HV20 is NOT using Cannons 24F, (my confusion stems from reading a posting on an alternate forum stating the HV20 was indeed 24F, and, within the manual its 24P mode is referred to as 24FP). Joy! Thanks again, |
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#4 |
Major Player
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 658
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All the 24 I have seen from tho HV20 is interlaced.
what's this about? How are people dealing (Obviously you could deinterlace in your NLE - But what's the cost in Res w. the HV20?) Thanks |
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#5 |
New Boot
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Manhattan
Posts: 15
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Unless I am horribly ignorant and have mis-read just about everything out there on the HV20, while it shoots @ 1080i60 - in 24 Cine mode it inserts a pulldown pattern to the 60i material resulting in an interlacing pattern that is essentially progressive (if the two fields are from the SAME moment in time, its progressive...) , and this can be inverse telecined to achieve TRUE progressive 24fps footage.
However the caveat is that the HV20 does not put in the cadence metadata so your NLE/deinterlacing software has to either be smart enough to recognize the cadence on its own, or be explicetly told by you. My questions above were about sidestepping the post processing after capture, and using FCP 6.0.2 to do on the fly pulldown removal during capture, eliminating a rather tedious second step. |
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#6 |
Major Player
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 658
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Thanks Anton,
I am looking into the HV 20 primarily to work with a 35mm adapter as a smaller package btw: I love your Max patches |
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#7 |
New Boot
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Manhattan
Posts: 15
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Thanks! :) Im waiting to get a 35mm adaptor too. Im seriously pumped - the HV20 is the best bang for the buck ive gotten in a LONG time - I highly recommend it even without the lens adaptor!
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#8 |
Major Player
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 658
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Great
Can't wait to see the results ! |
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#9 |
Major Player
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 613
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So far, all you can do is download it as 108060i HDV and reverse telecine in Compressor, that is without resorting to third-party plug-ins.
__________________
"Babs Do or Babs Do not, there is no try." - Zack Birlew www.BabsDoProductions.com |
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#10 |
Major Player
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 658
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great thanks to all - sorry for hijacking this thread
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#11 |
Trustee
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo
Posts: 1,382
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HV20's 24f don't have tags to the frames, so it does not work the same as G1/A1/H1 when you capture in FCP.
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#12 | |
New Boot
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Manhattan
Posts: 15
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Quote:
Thanks for the clarification. |
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#13 |
Trustee
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo
Posts: 1,382
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No problem, on top of that, there seems to be no automatic indication that FCP captures 24f clip from HV20, so in order to cancel the pulldown frames, you have to figure out the certain frame and certain format pattern in the Cinematools.
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#14 | |
New Boot
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Manhattan
Posts: 15
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Quote:
Thanks. |
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#15 |
Major Player
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: New York City
Posts: 613
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i know cineform is one of the only pieces of software thatll do a realtime inverse telecine during capture for the hv20 on pc and they have a mac version. havent used the mac version much, though.
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