HV20 working out well for greenscreen!

Ben Syverson · November 7th, 2007, 12:50 PM

Yeah, I'm focusing my development efforts on Final Cut Pro right now. FCP has an amazing realtime processing path, and it's very accessible to developers...

Alex Leith · November 7th, 2007, 07:03 PM

As a long-time DV Matte Pro user, I am very excited about what I'm seeing there for the new version...

I'm also considering an HV20 as a second camera... so it's nice to know that it will capture chroma-keyable footage okay.

Ben Syverson · November 7th, 2007, 10:12 PM

This new version is a whole new world... and the HV20 is an awesome machine!

Todd Clark · November 8th, 2007, 08:00 AM

Are you going to have a new version for After Effects or Premiere Pro?

Ben Syverson · November 8th, 2007, 02:47 PM

Maybe at some point, but not right away... I'm moving away from traditional CPU-based effects. Once you see a MacBook Pro playing back a 720p dvmatte pro composite in realtime -- and you're able to tweak dvmatte parameters as it's playing -- After Effects begins to look extremely unappealing.

Yang Wen · November 9th, 2007, 02:45 PM

Your hair is transparent.

Maybe you have thinning hair too like me.. ;)

Ben Syverson · November 9th, 2007, 03:01 PM

Yeah, I might have gone a little too light on the hair... there's a slider that lets you adjust how dark those fine details are.

Joseph H. Moore · November 10th, 2007, 08:23 PM

Very nice. I'm going to have to give the new version a hard look. Will you post back here when it is available?

Your sample was scaled down to SD. Do you really think that at HD dimensions the added color resolution of straight HDMI capture (4:2:2 vs HDV's 4:2:0) won't make a significant difference in edge quality?

Ben Syverson · November 10th, 2007, 10:46 PM

Joseph,

The sample I posted is in HD resolution -- to see the full 720p, make sure you have the "HD on" button toggled in the Vimeo player. You probably want to hit "full screen" too...

You'll probably see a small advantage from capturing to HDMI, but for most subjects, the pain of shooting tethered to a desktop machine with an HDMI board won't be worth it. I know I'd rather shoot to tape or to a laptop... :)

Joseph H. Moore · November 11th, 2007, 08:04 AM

Found the Quicktime at the bottom of the screen.

Very nice raw results. With the right lighting and the appropriate bkg plate you defintely could make tricky composites that sell on screen, even with HDV.

Please do let us know when the new version ships. Do you have a list of the improvements anywhere?

Ben Syverson · November 11th, 2007, 02:12 PM

Not yet, but the improvements are basically:

- Vastly improved fine detail response. It's now possible to preserve even the finest details. Tiny wisps of blonde hair can be reproduced.

- Dynamic spill suppression. Normal spill suppression corrects the green of the greenscreen to one specific color -- usually a brownish gray. The new dvmatte considers the background when de-spilling, changing the spill parameters on a per-pixel level.

- When compared with older versions of dvmatte, the new version is somewhere between 10 to 100 times faster, thanks to GPU acceleration. You can key 720p footage in realtime on a laptop!

Joseph H. Moore · November 11th, 2007, 03:07 PM

That's some list!

Ben Syverson · November 11th, 2007, 07:31 PM

:)

In the past, the software was really the limiting factor. You could have pretty good footage, but not be able to make an acceptable composite. But with this new version, I think we're finally brushing up against the limits of the greenscreen process itself...

The new fidelity of the process can be a double-edged sword; reproducing all that subtle detail means we're also reproducing any tiny mistakes or problems. The new dvmatte will render even the finest wisps of hair, but if you're not careful, it can also faithfully reproduce vignetting, uneven lighting, camera noise, and tiny screen imperfections. If you use a cloth greenscreen like I sometimes do (the ones from Composite Components are the best on the planet), you have to be careful when shooting HD, because dvmatte will even reproduce the fine weave of the fabric!

Of course, I have tools in the dvmatte toolbox to deal with that, including a screen correction plug-in, and a screen cleaner that scrubs away detail from empty areas of the screen. But the less work those plugins have to do, the better.

It'll be interesting to see how people take to this new version -- it shifts a lot of weight from my shoulders to the person lighting and shooting...

Stefan Szabo · November 13th, 2007, 08:40 AM

Hey Ben, the new version looks awesome!!! Do you have any idea on when it will be available for purchase, and what it will be called? I'm anxious to get my hands on it.... Thanks!

Stefan szabo

Ben Syverson · November 14th, 2007, 02:22 AM

Thanks Stefan!

From what I gather, we're set to release sometime late this month or early in December. It'll still be called "dvmatte pro," and will still be distributed through dvgarage.com

November 7th, 2007, 07:03 PM	#17
Alex Leith Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Northampton, England Posts: 500	As a long-time DV Matte Pro user, I am very excited about what I'm seeing there for the new version... I'm also considering an HV20 as a second camera... so it's nice to know that it will capture chroma-keyable footage okay. __________________ Alex

November 13th, 2007, 08:40 AM	#29
Stefan Szabo New Boot Join Date: May 2007 Location: Harrison, AR Posts: 17	When will it be available? Hey Ben, the new version looks awesome!!! Do you have any idea on when it will be available for purchase, and what it will be called? I'm anxious to get my hands on it.... Thanks! Stefan szabo

November 7th, 2007, 12:50 PM	#16
Ben Syverson Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: chicago Posts: 434	Yeah, I'm focusing my development efforts on Final Cut Pro right now. FCP has an amazing realtime processing path, and it's very accessible to developers...

November 7th, 2007, 10:12 PM	#18
Ben Syverson Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: chicago Posts: 434	This new version is a whole new world... and the HV20 is an awesome machine!

November 8th, 2007, 08:00 AM	#19
Todd Clark Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Parma, Oh Posts: 172	Are you going to have a new version for After Effects or Premiere Pro?

November 8th, 2007, 02:47 PM	#20
Ben Syverson Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: chicago Posts: 434	Maybe at some point, but not right away... I'm moving away from traditional CPU-based effects. Once you see a MacBook Pro playing back a 720p dvmatte pro composite in realtime -- and you're able to tweak dvmatte parameters as it's playing -- After Effects begins to look extremely unappealing.

November 9th, 2007, 02:45 PM	#21
Yang Wen Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 991	Your hair is transparent. Maybe you have thinning hair too like me.. ;)

November 9th, 2007, 03:01 PM	#22
Ben Syverson Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: chicago Posts: 434	Yeah, I might have gone a little too light on the hair... there's a slider that lets you adjust how dark those fine details are.

November 10th, 2007, 08:23 PM	#23
Joseph H. Moore Major Player Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 362	Very nice. I'm going to have to give the new version a hard look. Will you post back here when it is available? Your sample was scaled down to SD. Do you really think that at HD dimensions the added color resolution of straight HDMI capture (4:2:2 vs HDV's 4:2:0) won't make a significant difference in edge quality?

November 10th, 2007, 10:46 PM	#24
Ben Syverson Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: chicago Posts: 434	Joseph, The sample I posted is in HD resolution -- to see the full 720p, make sure you have the "HD on" button toggled in the Vimeo player. You probably want to hit "full screen" too... You'll probably see a small advantage from capturing to HDMI, but for most subjects, the pain of shooting tethered to a desktop machine with an HDMI board won't be worth it. I know I'd rather shoot to tape or to a laptop... :)

November 11th, 2007, 08:04 AM	#25
Joseph H. Moore Major Player Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 362	Found the Quicktime at the bottom of the screen. Very nice raw results. With the right lighting and the appropriate bkg plate you defintely could make tricky composites that sell on screen, even with HDV. Please do let us know when the new version ships. Do you have a list of the improvements anywhere?

November 11th, 2007, 02:12 PM	#26
Ben Syverson Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: chicago Posts: 434	Not yet, but the improvements are basically: - Vastly improved fine detail response. It's now possible to preserve even the finest details. Tiny wisps of blonde hair can be reproduced. - Dynamic spill suppression. Normal spill suppression corrects the green of the greenscreen to one specific color -- usually a brownish gray. The new dvmatte considers the background when de-spilling, changing the spill parameters on a per-pixel level. - When compared with older versions of dvmatte, the new version is somewhere between 10 to 100 times faster, thanks to GPU acceleration. You can key 720p footage in realtime on a laptop!

November 11th, 2007, 03:07 PM	#27
Joseph H. Moore Major Player Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 362	That's some list!

November 11th, 2007, 07:31 PM	#28
Ben Syverson Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: chicago Posts: 434	:) In the past, the software was really the limiting factor. You could have pretty good footage, but not be able to make an acceptable composite. But with this new version, I think we're finally brushing up against the limits of the greenscreen process itself... The new fidelity of the process can be a double-edged sword; reproducing all that subtle detail means we're also reproducing any tiny mistakes or problems. The new dvmatte will render even the finest wisps of hair, but if you're not careful, it can also faithfully reproduce vignetting, uneven lighting, camera noise, and tiny screen imperfections. If you use a cloth greenscreen like I sometimes do (the ones from Composite Components are the best on the planet), you have to be careful when shooting HD, because dvmatte will even reproduce the fine weave of the fabric! Of course, I have tools in the dvmatte toolbox to deal with that, including a screen correction plug-in, and a screen cleaner that scrubs away detail from empty areas of the screen. But the less work those plugins have to do, the better. It'll be interesting to see how people take to this new version -- it shifts a lot of weight from my shoulders to the person lighting and shooting...

November 14th, 2007, 02:22 AM	#30
Ben Syverson Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: chicago Posts: 434	Thanks Stefan! From what I gather, we're set to release sometime late this month or early in December. It'll still be called "dvmatte pro," and will still be distributed through dvgarage.com