Canon HG10: download 24p video clips

Austin Meyers · August 11th, 2007, 04:53 PM

it's hard to tell because the places we were had so much ambient noise, but from what i can tell there is less noise when using the controls than the hv20, just by the fact that they are mounted on the lcd, there is no tape drive noise, and the harddrive is very quiet, and in the clips i have i can't hear the hdd or the zoom motors, but again there is a lot of ambient noise. this cam also is a bit more solid in your hands than the hv20, the lack of a tape drive means no tape drive door, which eliminates the slight play that the body of the hv20 has which in my experience causes some noise when you adjust your grip etc..

some audio (after saying the settings i was pushing buttons changing exposure etc...)
http://file.meyersproduction.com/hg10/hg10%20audio.aif

Luc Fender · August 12th, 2007, 01:57 PM

Thanks a lot. It seems there's no tape noise in that recording (little bit difficult to tell with the sounds but I usually still would pick it up).
Sounds promising:-).

I guess the lack of audio volume control is not an issue if I don't need to lower it to reduce the tape noise:-).

Luc Fender · August 12th, 2007, 02:00 PM

By the way where did you buy it? Looking at [non-sponsor reference removed] it says ships in October?

Chris Hurd · August 12th, 2007, 02:09 PM

That's right, it's not available until October. He didn't buy it -- he had his hands on it only for a short while. See http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=100722

Chris Hurd · August 12th, 2007, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luc Fender

I guess the lack of audio volume control is not an issue...

Actually it has an audio volume control. That's what adjusts the audio volume when playing back pre-recorded video clips. What it doesn't have is manual audio level control over the built-in mic or the external mic input, for manually adjusting the incoming audio levels during recording.

Luc Fender · August 12th, 2007, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

Actually it has an audio volume control. That's what adjusts the audio volume when playing back pre-recorded video clips. What it doesn't have is manual audio level control over the built-in mic or the external mic input, for manually adjusting the incoming audio levels during recording.

Yeah I meant that (not having to adjust if there's no motor noise).

Guy Bruner · August 12th, 2007, 04:41 PM

Well, users of the Vegas editing software will be disappointed. I have verified that Vegas 7 won't edit these files...just like Vegas won't edit Panasonic AVCHD...thanks Austin for posting the raw video. Plus, Sony has announced Vegas 8 to be shown at IBC won't edit any AVCHD except Sony's version.

Steve Benner · August 12th, 2007, 08:05 PM

I was debating between the JVC Everio HD, and the HG-10, and your clips sold me...I don't know why Camcorder Info said the 24P was unusable, it looked fine to me...maybe theirs was defective.

Also, I saw that your 24P clip was a 24 Frame file, not 1080/60i with pulldown...did Final Cut do that upon import or did you use a workaround (if so, what was it?).

Heinz Bihlmeir · August 12th, 2007, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Austin Meyers

and these 2 are on the highest setting:
http://file.meyersproduction.com/hg10/00011.MTS.zip

http://file.meyersproduction.com/hg10/00019.MTS.zip

Thanks again!

In respect to the codec quality, this is the best AVCHD compressed footage I have seen up to now. I assume this is the first camera on the market which provides AVC encoding up to 16 MBPS. If the next generation of single chip AVC codecs support the full AVCHD specification (current limit is 20MBPS), the AVCHD format becomes also interesting for prosumer camcorders, replacing HDV and maybe even XDCAM MPEG-2.

Ian G. Thompson · August 12th, 2007, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heinz Bihlmeir

I assume this is the first camera on the market which provides AVC encoding up to 16 MBPS.

I believe that's only 15mbps

Austin Meyers · August 13th, 2007, 01:24 AM

it said 15mbps in the camera's menu...

Austin Meyers · August 13th, 2007, 01:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Benner

I was debating between the JVC Everio HD, and the HG-10, and your clips sold me...I don't know why Camcorder Info said the 24P was unusable, it looked fine to me...maybe theirs was defective.

Also, I saw that your 24P clip was a 24 Frame file, not 1080/60i with pulldown...did Final Cut do that upon import or did you use a workaround (if so, what was it?).

I removed the pulldown using the same method as with the hv20. the 24-in-60 looks like garbage on a computer monitor, and I'm almost certain this is what had the other guys complaining about the 24, if they were just looking at it on the computer then I could understand the "unusable" but on an interlaced monitor it will look the same as with the pulldown removed on a computer.

My work around for 24p is I batch encode using compressor 3 (FCS 2) to remove the pulldown. The HG10 was a bit different as when I initially captured it in RroRes and then tried to remove pulldown and re-export it to ProRes, I was getting some funky errors, so I would have to capture to AIC and then convert to ProRes removing pulldown or vice versa. On the hv20 I capture to 60i HDV and then export it to HDVp24.

Austin Meyers · August 13th, 2007, 03:47 AM

imovie 08 works with the HG10

http://file.meyersproduction.com/hg1...20settings.png
http://file.meyersproduction.com/hg1...e%20import.png

It's quite the interesting little app... it also captures and transcodes to AIC at about 90-95mbps at 1440x1080 or 960x540. the coolest part next to the ability to just scrub through your video on the fly is the iphoto-esque image adjustments, and they playback real time (at least on my macpro)

Heinz Bihlmeir · August 13th, 2007, 05:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Austin Meyers

it said 15mbps in the camera's menu...

Yes, 15 MBPS average, but up to 16 MBPS peak depending on scene content (VBR coding). If you play the files on a PS3, you can display the AVC bitrate.

Serge Victorovich · August 13th, 2007, 07:02 AM

Heinz, i have sample from Panasonic AVCHD cam with these parametras:

file type : TS
video stream type : AVC/H.264
resolution : 1440x1080
profile:level : Main:4.0
aspect ratio :30x17(Extended_SAR(4:3))
interlaced : yes
frames count : 278
frame size max : 446 208
avg : 63 558
avg/max (I) : 221 962 / 446 208
avg/max (P) : 66 094 / 148 992
avg/max (B) : 39 526 / 91 392
min : 17 856
file size : 17 670 144
--------------------------------------------

framerate declared : 29.97
--------------------------------------------
real : 29.97

bitrate declared : 16 000 000
--------------------------------------------
real max : 28 046 968
real avg : 15 239 430
real min : 11 609 213

Interesting is comparing GOP of samples from Panasonic AVCHD and Canon HG10.

Panasonic (from samples i own) have variable GOP from 12 to 16 and looks as IBPBPBPBPBPBPBPI...
HG10 sample 00011.MTS always have GOP15 as IBBPBBPBBPBBPBBI...

Max bitrate at 28Mbps is good for complex scenes:)

Austin, all of *.mts samples is 24p inside 60i ?

August 11th, 2007, 04:53 PM	#16
Austin Meyers Contributor Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: austin, tx Posts: 300	it's hard to tell because the places we were had so much ambient noise, but from what i can tell there is less noise when using the controls than the hv20, just by the fact that they are mounted on the lcd, there is no tape drive noise, and the harddrive is very quiet, and in the clips i have i can't hear the hdd or the zoom motors, but again there is a lot of ambient noise. this cam also is a bit more solid in your hands than the hv20, the lack of a tape drive means no tape drive door, which eliminates the slight play that the body of the hv20 has which in my experience causes some noise when you adjust your grip etc.. some audio (after saying the settings i was pushing buttons changing exposure etc...) http://file.meyersproduction.com/hg10/hg10%20audio.aif __________________ Compositing is my life right now. IMDB page: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm3596782/

August 12th, 2007, 02:00 PM	#18
Luc Fender Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 61	Where to buy? By the way where did you buy it? Looking at [non-sponsor reference removed] it says ships in October?

August 12th, 2007, 02:09 PM	#19
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	That's right, it's not available until October. He didn't buy it -- he had his hands on it only for a short while. See http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=100722 __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

August 13th, 2007, 01:24 AM	#26
Austin Meyers Contributor Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: austin, tx Posts: 300	it said 15mbps in the camera's menu... __________________ Compositing is my life right now. IMDB page: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm3596782/

August 13th, 2007, 03:47 AM	#28
Austin Meyers Contributor Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: austin, tx Posts: 300	imovie 08 imovie 08 works with the HG10 http://file.meyersproduction.com/hg1...20settings.png http://file.meyersproduction.com/hg1...e%20import.png It's quite the interesting little app... it also captures and transcodes to AIC at about 90-95mbps at 1440x1080 or 960x540. the coolest part next to the ability to just scrub through your video on the fly is the iphoto-esque image adjustments, and they playback real time (at least on my macpro) __________________ Compositing is my life right now. IMDB page: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm3596782/

August 12th, 2007, 01:57 PM	#17
Luc Fender Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 61	Thanks a lot. It seems there's no tape noise in that recording (little bit difficult to tell with the sounds but I usually still would pick it up). Sounds promising:-). I guess the lack of audio volume control is not an issue if I don't need to lower it to reduce the tape noise:-).

August 12th, 2007, 04:41 PM	#22
Guy Bruner Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Ashford, AL Posts: 937	Well, users of the Vegas editing software will be disappointed. I have verified that Vegas 7 won't edit these files...just like Vegas won't edit Panasonic AVCHD...thanks Austin for posting the raw video. Plus, Sony has announced Vegas 8 to be shown at IBC won't edit any AVCHD except Sony's version.

August 12th, 2007, 08:05 PM	#23
Steve Benner Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: United States Posts: 590	I was debating between the JVC Everio HD, and the HG-10, and your clips sold me...I don't know why Camcorder Info said the 24P was unusable, it looked fine to me...maybe theirs was defective. Also, I saw that your 24P clip was a 24 Frame file, not 1080/60i with pulldown...did Final Cut do that upon import or did you use a workaround (if so, what was it?).

August 13th, 2007, 07:02 AM	#30
Serge Victorovich Major Player Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 376	Heinz, i have sample from Panasonic AVCHD cam with these parametras: file type : TS video stream type : AVC/H.264 resolution : 1440x1080 profile:level : Main:4.0 aspect ratio :30x17(Extended_SAR(4:3)) interlaced : yes frames count : 278 frame size max : 446 208 avg : 63 558 avg/max (I) : 221 962 / 446 208 avg/max (P) : 66 094 / 148 992 avg/max (B) : 39 526 / 91 392 min : 17 856 file size : 17 670 144 -------------------------------------------- framerate declared : 29.97 -------------------------------------------- real : 29.97 bitrate declared : 16 000 000 -------------------------------------------- real max : 28 046 968 real avg : 15 239 430 real min : 11 609 213 Interesting is comparing GOP of samples from Panasonic AVCHD and Canon HG10. Panasonic (from samples i own) have variable GOP from 12 to 16 and looks as IBPBPBPBPBPBPBPI... HG10 sample 00011.MTS always have GOP15 as IBBPBBPBBPBBPBBI... Max bitrate at 28Mbps is good for complex scenes:) Austin, all of *.mts samples is 24p inside 60i ?