Canon HG10 - High Def HDD camcorder shipping in October

[Steve Royer]

All I need to know is if this is the AVCHD equivalent to the HV20. If so my prayers might have been answered!

[Chris Hurd]

Yes indeed -- this is the tapeless, hard drive version of the HV20 pretty much all the way around!

[Serge Victorovich]

A lot of people who love extrim sport need a camcorder with LANC.
Mr.Canon, you did big mistake and loosing potential consumers! :)
Body of HG10 looks more solid and sexy than hv20.
Also why impossible to save ability record mpeg2 25Mbps with AVC.
I think this is not a big problem for new generation of codec.

[Joey Atilano]

So what is the deal with editing AVCHD ? Is the actual editing hard to do for computers or is the rendering ?

I have Vegas 7 , could I edit the AVCHD m2t's but render to HDV and print back to tape for archive on my HDR-HC3?

I was thinking of getting a HV-20 today then this thing comes out.

[Chris Hurd]

Originally Posted by Serge Victorovich

A lot of people... need a camcorder with LANC.
Mr.Canon, you did big mistake... Also why impossible to save ability record mpeg2 25Mbps with AVC.

All flavors of the AVC format, including AVCHD, are strictly based on the H.264 specification which is strictly Mpeg4 territory by definition -- no Mpeg2 involved. That's not Canon's decision; it's the decision of the AVC consortium. And it's a little late for LANC -- as I said, Canon dropped it off their consumer camcorders a long time ago. In other words, the fact that it's no longer there should be no surprise; they haven't had it for years. And remember, bit rate has no bearing on quality; there's no need for 25mbps when a lower bit rate will do.

[Serge Victorovich]

Chris, HG10 use same DIGIC DVII codec as HV20. It is programmable.
25Mbps of mpeg2 is better (for me) than 15Mbps h264. I wish only 25-50 AVC-intra:)
Look at this tread on doom9:http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=128498

HG10 also utilise same good cmos 1/2,7" imager as HV20.

[Steve Royer]

Originally Posted by Joey Atilano

So what is the deal with editing AVCHD ?

Someone can correct me but I think there's two issues going on (that pros find problems with)...

1) There wasn't any support for advanced editing programs when AVCHD FIRST arrived, so there was some fuss... but now Vegas and other programs can edit it fine.

2) The compression type make the picture itself noisier and tougher to work with visually.

So number one was my concern until the support finally caught up (which its still young from my understanding) so that's not a huge issue. The number two reason though might be less of a problem now with higher resolution AVCHD and Canon's fantastic cameras mixed together.

[Chris Hurd]

Originally Posted by Serge Victorovich

Chris, HG10 use same DIGIC DVII codec as HV20. It is programmable. 25Mbps of mpeg2 is better (for me) than 15Mbps h264. I wish only 25-50 AVC-intra:) ... HG10 also utilise same good cmos 1/2,7" imager as HV20.

Sure it's the same sensor and the same processor -- but the format is AVCHD and that's not going to change. If this camcorder was anything else (such as Mpeg2), then it wouldn't be AVCHD. Canon is a member of the AVCHD consortium, so it's unrealistic to expect anything other than an AVCHD camcorder.

Now what I think is interesting is to wonder if they will use AVC Intra on their professional camcorder line, for whatever it is that will eventually replace their XL and XH series of HDV camcorders. What tapeless format will they use... AVCHD or AVC Intra? Or perhaps something else?

But for now, the Canon HG10 is indeed AVCHD and that is set in stone and not very likely to change...

[Serge Victorovich]

But if possible to hack DIGIC II in Canon's digital cameras, why not to do same for their camcorders to enable hidden features?;)
For encode to AVC-intra need less computation than to full IBP...GOP.
Only more bitrates up to 50Mbps. I think this DIGIC DV II will be used for future AVC-intra camcorders with different firmware.
Because now is the time when we can see unification of hardware with different firmwares.

[Chris Hurd]

Well the only problem with hacking to enable hidden features, is that those hidden features have to be in there in the first place. I have no doubt that someone will attempt to hack this camcorder, but I seriously doubt that they will find AVC Intra hiding inside.

[Chris Hurd]

The title of this thread has been changed from "Canon HG10 - Finally FULL 1920x1080" to "Canon HG10 - High Def HDD camcorder shipping in October." I have confirmed through Canon USA that the forthcoming HG10 does NOT record AVCHD at 1920 x 1080. It records, just like its sister camcorder the DVD-based HR10, at 1440 x 1080 anamorphic. This is contrary to what Engadget mistakenly reported when they said:

"Unlike their first AVCHD recorder (the HR10) the HG10 records 1,920 x 1,080 video to a 40GB disk drive instead of a DVD platter."

Actually the only difference in recording between the Canon HG10 and HR10 is that the HG10 records to an internal hard drive while the HR10 records to Mini DVD optical media... other than that, they both record AVCHD at 1440 x 1080 anamorphic, which of course is automatically scaled by any 1080i HDTV as 1920 x 1080, which may have been the source of the confusion.

It is in fact recording AVCHD at 1440 x 1080, just like HDV and HDCAM. Hope this helps,

[Matt Buys]

Chris, forgive my ignorance, I'm trying to understand your post with my limited understanding of technical matters. Am I right in reading into it that because this is AVCHD and tapeless there is no pulldown and we won't need cineform to extract an unsquiggly 24p like we do with the HV20 in CS3? Thanks.

[Chris Hurd]

No -- it's still 24p in a 60i stream -- see http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showpost....0&postcount=14

At least I'm pretty sure that's how it is, unless anybody knows for a fact that it's different?

[Hse Kha]

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

I have confirmed through Canon USA that the forthcoming HG10 does NOT record AVCHD at 1920 x 1080. It records, just like its sister camcorder the DVD-based HR10, at 1440 x 1080 anamorphic. This is contrary to what Engadget mistakenly reported

Oh that is sad. It is so ironic that Panasonic and JVC have camcorders that record in full 1920x1080 with sensors that do half that resolution! Yet Canon has an amazingly high resolution sensor that can do 1920x1080, yet Canon chooses to reduce that to 1440x1080 when recording.

[Jack Zhang]

My dream for Consumer HD (or HD in general)...
3 1920x1080 global shutter CMOS sensors capturing in H.264 at 100Mbps in 1080p60.

Heck, I'll make that my new signature! If the dream is possible, one of the companies must make it so!