Color Gain

Ken Tanaka · May 13th, 2003, 10:12 PM

Jason,
The only drawback to shooting in b&w -may- be that it leaves you a bit less wiggle room in post. I know that many folks who want to do a b&w piece choose to shoot in color and then use their editor's color correction tools to produce the monochrome version. Not having done this myself I am only passing along what I've learned from others' experiences.

Rob Lohman · May 14th, 2003, 02:00 AM

Okay now that this mystery is solved, what does the color gain
on the GL2 do? Or does it just do it much less than my XL1s does?

Cosmin Rotaru · May 14th, 2003, 06:55 AM

The color gain works but just some small increments. I didn't know canon states that this is the way to go for B/W! Very strange!

Jason Balich · May 14th, 2003, 09:20 AM

Here we go!!! -lol-

Honestly, i have had my GL2 for over a month now and found that this color gain ads like a crispness to the pixels for getting lower light shots. It makes it possible, btu you have to handle artifacts like crisp anti-aliasing edging. Maybe up the softness to over come?

Whats your ideas on this color gain. And lets watch out for color phase!!

Rob Lohman · May 14th, 2003, 11:00 AM

What is your definition of color phase?

Jason Balich · May 14th, 2003, 11:19 AM

My view on color phase from recent NLE problems with weird color tones in my captures is that "color phase" is for fixing weird Hue shifts when shooting to get it more in the zone that looks realistic. Sometimes u get realy red shots indoors under natural light. SO u can shift this to fix it up. I think the GL2 is powerful with color enhancements and causes real imbalances in the color spectrum unless u manually work with these controls. Get into them. My Compositing with Premiere to music has improved greatly with playing around with these controls.

Ohh' You know a great way i've found to figure this stuff out..is to actually say what setting you have adjested right at the beginning of shooting at a particular setting. then when u switch anything..say it again and when u edit on PC. You can tell what u did right or wrong.

Just sharing :)

Rob Lohman · May 14th, 2003, 04:04 PM

I think you are referring to color shifts. This mainly happens
when the camera is incorrectly white-balanced or when you
have some odd temperature lights in the room. When you
change this in the editing or post you are simply adjusting
the colors (color correction/timing) and/or changing the levels/
hue's.

Jason Balich · May 14th, 2003, 07:30 PM

Color phase is what i am talking about.

Go read here. Color correction is onboard.

Have a read.

http://www.canondv.com/gl2/f_color_phase.html

:) I'm a post guy also. But it is nice when u can get what u want with this camera with alittle fiddling. You were speaking of color correction. What program do u use for it? I mainly use discreet combustion 2.0

Rob Lohman · May 15th, 2003, 03:22 AM

Ah, I didn't know the GL2 had that function! Thanks for pointing
that out to me.

I have been doing some CC work in After Effects but I'm currently
looking (slowly) at Vegas 4 and Avid to see what they have to
offer all in one package. Basically if I can get a good editor with
good color correction tools and some animation capabilities (to
move footage under my blackbars) then I'm likely to stay with
one package. A friend of mine had AE so I checked that one out
there.

Andre De Clercq · May 18th, 2003, 12:24 PM

The color part in a video image signal is being defined by 3 (main) parameters:
1. White balance: the ratio between the RGB components, affecting all colors.
2. Saturation: the ratio of the U/V levels vs the luma level
3. Hue the ratio between U and V (or R-Y and B-Y). This can be optained in component form (NLE) by changing this ratio, or in NTSC encoded signals by changing the burst phase relative to the chroma phase, resulting in the U/V ratio change when those signals are being decoded into components.

May 13th, 2003, 10:12 PM	#16
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	Jason, The only drawback to shooting in b&w -may- be that it leaves you a bit less wiggle room in post. I know that many folks who want to do a b&w piece choose to shoot in color and then use their editor's color correction tools to produce the monochrome version. Not having done this myself I am only passing along what I've learned from others' experiences. __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

May 14th, 2003, 02:00 AM	#17
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	Okay now that this mystery is solved, what does the color gain on the GL2 do? Or does it just do it much less than my XL1s does? __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

May 14th, 2003, 09:20 AM	#19
Jason Balich Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Toronto Posts: 58	OH No!! Here we go!!! -lol- Honestly, i have had my GL2 for over a month now and found that this color gain ads like a crispness to the pixels for getting lower light shots. It makes it possible, btu you have to handle artifacts like crisp anti-aliasing edging. Maybe up the softness to over come? Whats your ideas on this color gain. And lets watch out for color phase!! __________________ It's not the tools that make u great. It's how you use them!

May 14th, 2003, 11:00 AM	#20
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	What is your definition of color phase? __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

May 14th, 2003, 11:19 AM	#21
Jason Balich Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Toronto Posts: 58	amateur opinion My view on color phase from recent NLE problems with weird color tones in my captures is that "color phase" is for fixing weird Hue shifts when shooting to get it more in the zone that looks realistic. Sometimes u get realy red shots indoors under natural light. SO u can shift this to fix it up. I think the GL2 is powerful with color enhancements and causes real imbalances in the color spectrum unless u manually work with these controls. Get into them. My Compositing with Premiere to music has improved greatly with playing around with these controls. Ohh' You know a great way i've found to figure this stuff out..is to actually say what setting you have adjested right at the beginning of shooting at a particular setting. then when u switch anything..say it again and when u edit on PC. You can tell what u did right or wrong. Just sharing :) __________________ It's not the tools that make u great. It's how you use them!

May 14th, 2003, 06:55 AM	#18
Cosmin Rotaru Major Player Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Romania, Timisoara Posts: 453	The color gain works but just some small increments. I didn't know canon states that this is the way to go for B/W! Very strange!

May 14th, 2003, 04:04 PM	#22
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	I think you are referring to color shifts. This mainly happens when the camera is incorrectly white-balanced or when you have some odd temperature lights in the room. When you change this in the editing or post you are simply adjusting the colors (color correction/timing) and/or changing the levels/ hue's. __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

May 14th, 2003, 07:30 PM	#23
Jason Balich Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Toronto Posts: 58	nope Color phase is what i am talking about. Go read here. Color correction is onboard. Have a read. http://www.canondv.com/gl2/f_color_phase.html :) I'm a post guy also. But it is nice when u can get what u want with this camera with alittle fiddling. You were speaking of color correction. What program do u use for it? I mainly use discreet combustion 2.0 __________________ It's not the tools that make u great. It's how you use them!

May 15th, 2003, 03:22 AM	#24
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	Ah, I didn't know the GL2 had that function! Thanks for pointing that out to me. I have been doing some CC work in After Effects but I'm currently looking (slowly) at Vegas 4 and Avid to see what they have to offer all in one package. Basically if I can get a good editor with good color correction tools and some animation capabilities (to move footage under my blackbars) then I'm likely to stay with one package. A friend of mine had AE so I checked that one out there. __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

May 18th, 2003, 12:24 PM	#25
Andre De Clercq Major Player Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 804	The color part in a video image signal is being defined by 3 (main) parameters: 1. White balance: the ratio between the RGB components, affecting all colors. 2. Saturation: the ratio of the U/V levels vs the luma level 3. Hue the ratio between U and V (or R-Y and B-Y). This can be optained in component form (NLE) by changing this ratio, or in NTSC encoded signals by changing the burst phase relative to the chroma phase, resulting in the U/V ratio change when those signals are being decoded into components.