Lavalieres for GL2

[Ray Watkins]

This is my first post to an outstanding forum; it has already been of great help, especially to a guy who may be a bit giddy, still on a honeymoon with his new GL2.

I’ve been testing everything as I learn, but have my first job in late May, capturing a workshop in Tucson (whose focus will be good sound from a good speaker) and, while superb in many applications, the Rode Videomic isn’t shaping up to be the right tool for the job; too much ambient pickup from, say, 30 feet out in rooms with vinyl floors and bouncy ceilings and walls.

My question: are there reliable wireless lavalieres less expensive than the Sennheiser pkgs. (around $500)? Am I seeing a consensus that one must simply give up on the less expensive VHF offerings? I’ll have plenty of “Post Power” with FCX, but see there’s no substitute for good source.

Thanks so much to all.

Ray

[Mark Holland]

Ray,

Congrats on your GL-2. I've got a GL-1 as well as a GL-2, and I love them both.

Yep, I think you should go wireless. As for VHF vs UHF, sometimes it doesn't matter. It all depends on the situation as well as the equipment.

I'm guessing that like most of us, your budget says that you need a system that will work in most every situation and isn't only good for this workshop. If budget isn't a consideration, then search this forum for MANY answers to "What wireless mic should I buy?"

Otherwise, I'd say get a UHF based system, with multiple channel choices. Sennheiser makes good stuff, as well as other companies. I'd say that spending around $500 is a good start. You'll likely find an acceptable system in that price range. If you're budget is REALLY tight, you might also look at Samson's product line. I've used their stuff for many years with very few problems, and it'll probably cost a little less than the Sennheisers. But, if you can afford it, go Sennheiser or Lectrosonic!

Like everyone, it's just my opinion, based on my experiences.

Good luck!

Mark

[Ray Watkins]

Thanks, Mark, for your quick reply; encouraging to learn that some UHF options might meet my needs.

I was vague: the $500 figure is out of my current reach, so I’ll investigate Samson alternatives, since the workshop setting (smallish: around 30 participants) is my immediate concern (read “fear”!). Any specifics your experience would recommend?

Ray

[Mark Holland]

Ray,

I'm using the Samson Airline Micro system for weddings, with great results. I've used the larger, multi channel version (Micro 32?) for seminars. I've also got in my kit an older Electro-Voice, VHF, true diversity system that has worked well for many applications. But like I said, if I had a limited budget, and I need to have an almost universal system, I'd go with the Airline Micro as a starter system.

Now, as for specifics on audio for workshops/seminars, I'd use more than one mic, and I'd use a mixer. In addition to the wireless on the speaker, a wired hand mic (or 2) on a mic stand can be used to mix in ambient sounds, (if you want them) questions from the floor, (have them pass it around and speak into it) and, if your wireless were to fail for some reason, you've got a back-up ready and waiting. Having said all of this, if your presenter will speak from a fixed location, then a wired mic will be the absolute best thing to use. However, most people want to move around as they speak, so you gotta go wireless.

Oh, and ALWAYS wear headphones to monitor the sound as it happens!

BTW, I think the Samson Airline Micro was $268 at B&H recently.

Good luck!

Mark

[Dale Guthormsen]

Mark,

I am interested in using more than one mic. As an example using a wireless for the speaker and the shotgun for room audio.
If you use a mixer, can you run more than one mic into the mixer and then record it all onto the audio track on the gl2?? then when you down load all audio is on track one and two, right??

I am pretty week on this audio aspects!!!

[Graham Bernard]

Originally Posted by Dale Guthormsen

I am interested in using more than one mic. As an example using a wireless for the speaker and the shotgun for room audio.
If you use a mixer, can you run more than one mic into the mixer and then record it all onto the audio track on the gl2?? then when you down load all audio is on track one and two, right??

Dale, I have the Canon MA300. This allows for 2xXLRs inputs: Right and Left. Using this method I record hard wired shotgun to CamRight and Senni Rx Wireless Reporter mic OR Wireless Lapel mic to CamLeft (Left and Right can be changed over too!!) I've also used hard wired long lengths of XLR to one channel and Rx wireless to the other channel. I've experienced much combinations of these two combos - at my level. I keep things very simple.

So no need for a mixer IF you are using purely 2 mic inputs. Things get tricky above 2 mics. This I have done with a field mixer, and have had to use a "mix" on one channel. And of course, I can't then separate the mix-down that is recorded top one of the channels. Now, if I had another audio capture device?? Ah yes I do! The other XM2. But so do you Dale? You have your other Canon camera?

One of the valuable features on the XM2 are the independent channel mixing wheels. And was one of the reasons that I bought the camera back in 2003!!!

[Don Palomaki]

There are several options in the under $500 range in UHF, including the Sony UWP series, the Sennheiser 112 series, and Azden models to name a few popular ones. All can do a reasonable job. Final sound quality may depend more on the mic in the system than which wireless transmitter/receiver you use. Many UHF models give wide ranging options for frequency, and that can me important if you are in a area with a lot of radio transmitters and moble radios.

If you are on a tight budget, you might find success with a VHF model at about half the cost. The sound quality will be better than a shotgun at 30 feet, but not great, and frequency options are usually much more limited than the newer UHF models. I've had reasonable results with the AZDEN WDR/WX-Pro models (for weddings and taped classroom sesions - not Hi-Fi, but understandable).

In any case, check make/model literature (usually available on line or from the manufacturers tech support) to be sure you pick a frequency range model that works in your area.

[Mark Holland]

Originally Posted by Dale Guthormsen

Mark,

I am interested in using more than one mic. As an example using a wireless for the speaker and the shotgun for room audio.
If you use a mixer, can you run more than one mic into the mixer and then record it all onto the audio track on the gl2?? then when you down load all audio is on track one and two, right??

I am pretty week on this audio aspects!!!

Dale,

I guess a lot of it depends on how YOU want to handle it and YOUR preferences. I can only tell you what I might do given the same situation.

If the speaker is going to be moving, I'd go wireless. If you want to have the option of using(or not using) his/her audio in post, I'd probably get a Beachtek (or similar non-powered, camera mounted) mixer that allows me the flexability of putting the speaker's audio on only one track, and mixing it in post. (after any needed clean-up) However, with the Beachtek, you can combine and send both mics to both channels if you wish.

I'd probably put another mic out on a stand for the room sound, and maybe a third out for the Q&A session. (Like I said before, ask them to pass it around and use it for their questions.)

Just as a back-up, I'd probably add another mic at the speaker's table. Most likely, I'd leave it off or very low, unless I needed it. If it's a panel of speakers, you'll want to consider a mic per person.

All these mics, I'd put through a small powered mixer of some sort (Shure, Mackie, etc) then put THAT mixed signal through the camera mounted Beachtek for the other channel.

At least I think that's what I'd do. Personally, I'd bring all the gear I mentioned, then modify the plan as needed when I got there.

BTW, with the camera mounted mixer, you get audio control at you fingertips.

Mark

[Dale Guthormsen]

Thanks guys, I feel so weak in the audio area.

Let me see if i get it. Ideal would be to have the ma 300 or a beach teck.
Run one or two mics to an in line mixer (if two) then to the xlr input for one track.
the second track I would run the rode shotgun mic to.

Other option, wireless to mixer and perhaps a hard wired mic, they go to right track.
then use my rode or senheiser on the camera to the left track.

Grazies second, easier option use my other canon with either the wireless or shotgun, to later drop audio onto the audio timeline in post!!


I think I get it, or do I??????

thanks for the explanations, and corrections to this post if needed!!!

[Graham Bernard]

Originally Posted by Dale Guthormsen

Let me see if i get it.

You got it!

However . . am I correct in thinking that your XL2 has an ability to record 3 tracks of audio? I know with the XM2 I can "setup" to DUB using 3 tracks - not live record, but dub. It means using a lower sampling quality, but for live recording speech maybe this aint an issue. Dale, please look into your XL2 being able to do this? As I don't posses one, I maybe talking crapola here - yeah?

But yes, in essence having 2 feeds - LEFT<>RIGHT gets you 2 distinct "INS". Using a mixer will give you a "combined" or mixed channel.

[Don Palomaki]

The XL1/1s/2 can record 4 tracks of audio at 12-bit, 32 kHz sampling at the same time. It is about FM broadcast music quality sound.

The GL2 can only record 2 tracks at a time, Either 16-bit 48 kHz only, or 12-bit 32 kHz that will will allow dubbiing an additional 2 tracks later.