I think it is broken ;-( XM-2 red-problem

Lars Siden · March 28th, 2003, 01:13 PM

Hi Guys,

Spoke to Canon Support today and described the problem. There response was "if it is visible on TV, then there is a camera malfunction".

There guesses where "badly trimmed CCD" or "faulty CCD".

I will visit Canon IT Center Support on Monday. They will test my camera with their test equipment.

If this should turn out to be "no fault", then I'll demand an exchange/refund - a semi pro cam in with this price shouldn't produce a lower quality video than my 500 USD Panasonic cam.

I'll keep you posted!

Best regards,

Lars Siden

ps. BUD, mini-DV is alway compressed...5:1, I just took the original captured AVI file ( 200mb/minute ) and deinterlaced it to remove possible flicker effects. ds.

Yik Kuen · March 28th, 2003, 06:44 PM

Hi Lars,

Thank you and we're waiting for the good news.

Marc Martin · March 28th, 2003, 09:05 PM

I've just discovered that shooting in 16/9 can help red tones:

Image in 4/3:
http://marcolivier.free.fr/temp1/4-3.png

The same but shooted in 16/9 mode:
http://marcolivier.free.fr/temp1/16-9.png

Giampy Car · March 29th, 2003, 10:30 AM

I think i've the same problem in my XM1 but, this red bleeding is visible only on computer monitor and with high light condition shooting.
I guess it's problem of dinamic response of the red ccd.

Lars Siden · March 30th, 2003, 07:31 AM

Hi Guys,

Just wanted to tell you that I have done some extensive testing this weekend. I've filmed the same troublesome objects with my brand new XM-2 and with the old Panasonic DS-11.

I have also uninstalled ALL premiere stuff + standalone MC Mpeg encoder, cleansed the computer with DXMAN. Reinstalled Premiere 6.5.

My observations:

Edges & Fuzziness:

The DS11 gives a smoother impression on Computer monitor, but much less detail when viewed on TV.

Focus:

Some of the objects which I filmed without any problems with the XM-2 can't even be put into focus with DS-11(it just blurs them out).

Colour:

DS-11 has a blue/green tilt with a "restricted red". If I put the XM-2 in "indoor" profile it produces much more neutral colours.

Red:

If I film the same red jacket with the XM-2 and the Ds-11, they show the same problems. Overall the XM-2 produces a much cleaner result when viewed on TV, but a more pixelated & blocky appearance viewed on the computer monitor.

MPEG 2:

I converted the Raw AVI file to MPEG2 with the standalone MC Encoder v1.3. The result is very good! It is some noise when filming brightly coloured red, but not disturbing. Maybe I think the result is abit better when using "top field first" field encoding.

XM-2:

When using a Custom Preset with colour gain set to -2 and with the Color Phase set 2 steps towards green the result is very good, especially when viewed on a TV ( I have a Philips 32" Wide, blackline 100 hz ). I don't feel that decreasing the sharpness helps the "edge combing" effect that much.

When I view the tapes I filmed first, the "red shift" is much more pronounced than now - The only explenation I have is that maybe the camera was "damp" from transport, or maybe there where some "stuff" on the heads that has been rubbed of now.

Overall I'm quite happy with the result from the XM-2. Maybe I'll get me a filter that will filter out some red....

I'm VERY happy with the sound quality on the XM-2!

I will still talk to the technical team at Canon tomorrow to hear their opinion.

Best regards,

Lars Siden

Sweden

Graham Bernard · March 30th, 2003, 10:50 AM

You spent your Sunday doing all this! - I think a prize is in order.

Yes the sound on the XM2 is excellent. I like what you did with the presets - I'll give it a go.

Please keep us informed on your discussions with Canon reps - yeah?

March 28th, 2003, 01:13 PM	#31
Lars Siden Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Sweden, Stockholm Posts: 469	Hi Guys, Spoke to Canon Support today and described the problem. There response was "if it is visible on TV, then there is a camera malfunction". There guesses where "badly trimmed CCD" or "faulty CCD". I will visit Canon IT Center Support on Monday. They will test my camera with their test equipment. If this should turn out to be "no fault", then I'll demand an exchange/refund - a semi pro cam in with this price shouldn't produce a lower quality video than my 500 USD Panasonic cam. I'll keep you posted! Best regards, Lars Siden ps. BUD, mini-DV is alway compressed...5:1, I just took the original captured AVI file ( 200mb/minute ) and deinterlaced it to remove possible flicker effects. ds. __________________ Sony HDR-CX130,Canon 5DMKII,i7 930@4.0, 12gb memory, 3x SSD + 2x1Tb(stripe), Geforce 480, Dual 24", Win 7 x64

March 29th, 2003, 10:30 AM	#34
Giampy Car New Boot Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Italy Posts: 18	I think i've the same problem in my XM1 but, this red bleeding is visible only on computer monitor and with high light condition shooting. I guess it's problem of dinamic response of the red ccd. __________________ Giampy

March 30th, 2003, 07:31 AM	#35
Lars Siden Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Sweden, Stockholm Posts: 469	Hi Guys, Just wanted to tell you that I have done some extensive testing this weekend. I've filmed the same troublesome objects with my brand new XM-2 and with the old Panasonic DS-11. I have also uninstalled ALL premiere stuff + standalone MC Mpeg encoder, cleansed the computer with DXMAN. Reinstalled Premiere 6.5. My observations: Edges & Fuzziness: The DS11 gives a smoother impression on Computer monitor, but much less detail when viewed on TV. Focus: Some of the objects which I filmed without any problems with the XM-2 can't even be put into focus with DS-11(it just blurs them out). Colour: DS-11 has a blue/green tilt with a "restricted red". If I put the XM-2 in "indoor" profile it produces much more neutral colours. Red: If I film the same red jacket with the XM-2 and the Ds-11, they show the same problems. Overall the XM-2 produces a much cleaner result when viewed on TV, but a more pixelated & blocky appearance viewed on the computer monitor. MPEG 2: I converted the Raw AVI file to MPEG2 with the standalone MC Encoder v1.3. The result is very good! It is some noise when filming brightly coloured red, but not disturbing. Maybe I think the result is abit better when using "top field first" field encoding. XM-2: When using a Custom Preset with colour gain set to -2 and with the Color Phase set 2 steps towards green the result is very good, especially when viewed on a TV ( I have a Philips 32" Wide, blackline 100 hz ). I don't feel that decreasing the sharpness helps the "edge combing" effect that much. When I view the tapes I filmed first, the "red shift" is much more pronounced than now - The only explenation I have is that maybe the camera was "damp" from transport, or maybe there where some "stuff" on the heads that has been rubbed of now. Overall I'm quite happy with the result from the XM-2. Maybe I'll get me a filter that will filter out some red.... I'm VERY happy with the sound quality on the XM-2! I will still talk to the technical team at Canon tomorrow to hear their opinion. Best regards, Lars Siden Sweden __________________ Sony HDR-CX130,Canon 5DMKII,i7 930@4.0, 12gb memory, 3x SSD + 2x1Tb(stripe), Geforce 480, Dual 24", Win 7 x64

March 30th, 2003, 10:50 AM	#36
Graham Bernard Old Boot Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: London UK Posts: 3,633	Lars Thank You ! ! You spent your Sunday doing all this! - I think a prize is in order. Yes the sound on the XM2 is excellent. I like what you did with the presets - I'll give it a go. Please keep us informed on your discussions with Canon reps - yeah?

March 28th, 2003, 06:44 PM	#32
Yik Kuen Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Johor Bahru, Malaysia Posts: 135	Hi Lars, Thank you and we're waiting for the good news.

March 28th, 2003, 09:05 PM	#33
Marc Martin Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Paris, France Posts: 80	I've just discovered that shooting in 16/9 can help red tones: Image in 4/3: http://marcolivier.free.fr/temp1/4-3.png The same but shooted in 16/9 mode: http://marcolivier.free.fr/temp1/16-9.png