GL2 (PAL) and LaCie and Mac Firewire 800 issue at DVinfo.net

Nigel Cheffers-Heard · June 28th, 2006, 06:22 AM

It seems like I am not the only person to have this problem. connect it all up together and FCE won't run. seems to be software/firmware issue between the LaCie and the canon. I usually shoot on "ordinary" DV, but was given some Panasonic DVM63PQ. works great in my Canon, but my usual JVC MiniDV deck I use for editing won't play it without constant breaking up of sound, pic, and sync. So I thought, "No problem, play back from the camera..." and that's when I came acrss this strange behaviour. I found a couple of mentions on the Web, but no cure.
However, worked OK when I left the LaCie on the FW800 bus, and put the camera on the 400 bus.
Strange.
Comments, anyone?
N

Tim Johnson · June 28th, 2006, 09:56 AM

Avoid Panasonic tapes at all costs mate. We disposed of a load at college due to the fact that they seemed to be damaging the head of cameras. They did exactly the same on all of the camera/pc/reader combos. I bought my own packs of Maxell, had no problems!

Nigel Cheffers-Heard · June 28th, 2006, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Johnson

Avoid Panasonic tapes at all costs mate.

Never occurred to me that Pana made poor stuff; I have always been impressed with their hardware. Eh bien, thank you for the advice.
(Now I know why I was given them!!!!!!)
N

Jarrod Whaley · June 28th, 2006, 12:53 PM

I've never heard of anyone else complaining about Panny tapes. In fact, most users tend to think they're the best available. I'm not trying to undermine what tim was saying, I just thought I'd point out that the majority of shooters I've talked to actually prefer Panasonic tape stock, and many use nothing else.

Tim Johnson · June 28th, 2006, 01:34 PM

Well i can promise you - we had to throw out a whole load. there was no doubt that it was them. i believe its something to do with the gl2 head system and the lubricant used on the panasonic tapes, as even when we used the panasonic cleaning casettes it made little difference. maybe it was just a bad batch, but i put a maxell tape in the next day and had no problems.

Nigel Cheffers-Heard · June 28th, 2006, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jarrod Whaley

... the majority of shooters I've talked to actually prefer Panasonic tape stock, and many use nothing else.

Quite. I've used Panasonic "normal" tapes with no problems, but these "PQ" ones certainly aren't compatible with my JVC SR-VS30EK.
Curiouser and curiouser.
N

Tim Johnson · June 28th, 2006, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nigel Cheffers-Heard

Quite. I've used Panasonic "normal" tapes with no problems, but these "PQ" ones certainly aren't compatible with my JVC SR-VS30EK.
Curiouser and curiouser.
N

told ya... whatever anyone swears by, they cant beat cold hard evidence!

Jarrod Whaley · June 28th, 2006, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Johnson

told ya... whatever anyone swears by, they cant beat cold hard evidence!

Not trying to start an argument, but what about the "cold hard evidence" of thousands of users having no problems?

I'm also still not sure exactly what the issue is here. How can you be sure that the tapes were damaging your heads? Did you look at the heads? What was the actual problem, Tim? I mean, what did the footage look like? All you've said is that the Pannys were damaging your heads, and the Maxells weren't. I'm not sure how you'd know so easily whether your heads were being damaged or not. It would take careful observation over a period of weeks or months before you could be certain that a specific brand of tape stock were damaging your tape heads.

If you were just having dropouts, there are any number of things that could cause that. The heads in the GL2 are finicky. Sometimes they record or play things back weirdly. 99% of the time if you do a little detective work, you can figure out what the issue is and correct it.

Nigel--if the heads in your deck are dirty, they could have been rubbing all kinds of schmutz on these Panny tapes.

I apologize if I seem combative or anything. I just want to make sure the tapes are actually at fault before we go condemning them. There are just too few documented complaints about Panny tapes for me to believe that posts from two individual users, however well-intentioned, are evidence of widescale manufacturing problems.

Let's just get to the bottom of this for everyone's benefit, is all.

Nigel Cheffers-Heard · June 29th, 2006, 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jarrod Whaley

...
Let's just get to the bottom of this for everyone's benefit, is all.

I second that. I have experience of another forum, where a lot of prosumer digital photographers swear that a particular manufacturers lens is no good, or that you are extremely lucky if you get a "good one". I and a lot of other pros use this particular lens as our everyday standard zoom, and rarely if ever come across one that is less than superb.
So; apocryphally, it is an iffy lens, ACTUAL evidence from those who know how to use them suggests it is one of the best available.
Corollary of this is that rumours become facts (remember Joseph Goebbels). Some really hard evidence would be good. All my previous stuff on "normal" Panasonic tape has been fine. This PQ tape is fine in my camera, but my JVC deck won't play it.
INCIDENTALLY, my initial problem connecting stuff has been solved. Connected camera to 400 FW port, LaCie to 800 FW port. Works fine then.
N

Cliff Elliott · June 29th, 2006, 06:23 AM

I to have to way in here, I have been using an XM2 for three years now and have used 150 Panasonic tapes, AY-DVM83MQ to be precise, nothing else, and I have never had a problem with either the tapes or the camera relating to head problems etc.

Tim I except you had a problem and it was a serious one but as stated by others here your one bad expereince has to be wayed up against many hundreds if not thousands of users all over the world who have had no problem.

Please understand I am writting this as a way of trying to add balance to the subject and am not trying to have ago at you.

Regards, Cliff Elliott

Tom Elliott · July 10th, 2006, 08:52 PM

hmmm, tapes, tapes, tapes, my kingdom for the BEST tape.
Just jokeing.
I have had my GL2 for about two years and have used only Fujifilm tapes:
DVM60. The following code inside: DVM-AME U. Purchased at BJ's here in Miami, Floirda.
The only time I have a problem, the dreaded "remove cassett", has only happend when going in and out of airconditioned buildings, following the Bride and Groom all over the place. Then WHAM! that dreaded error warning.
IMHO it is do to the high humidity here in Miami, and does not happen when on a tripod in ONE spot, either always outside or always inside.
I mean us people who wear glasses have a "Fogging" problem ALL THE TIME.
Maybe I have been just lucky, but I really do not think the GL-2 (or any other camcorder for that matter) is designed for that kind of usage. One temp or the other but not within minutes. A possible solution, for weddings anyway, would be to have another camera inside for the inside shots and one for outside. I know, I know, what if I am following the subject all over the place.
I really do not know a solution to that one, for I am not a newscameraman, and besides the net works give them far better equipment to use than I can afford.
Well, now I feel better. Invest the above two cents wisely for I am very stingy ;-) grin.
Tom Elliott

Benjamin Taft · September 2nd, 2006, 11:10 AM

To answer the original posters question:

I had the same problem and got a reply back from Lacie or Canon that there was in fact a compatability problem between the the XM2 and the Lacie discs interface. Since my computer lacks a firewire800 port I had to return the Lacie disc, a shame since they don't seem to make the fw400 only discs anymore (I have one that works flawlessly). Strange...

Ian Stark · September 5th, 2006, 12:51 PM

To add my 2c's - there is an issue with the Canon 'hogging' the firewire bus thereby potentially dropping other firewire connections, such as an external hard disk. I can't say that this is your problem for certain but it certainly is a good place to start. There are a number of threads in this forum on the subject (er, none of which resolve the problem I'm afraid).

Ian . . .

June 28th, 2006, 06:22 AM	#1
Nigel Cheffers-Heard New Boot Join Date: May 2004 Location: Exeter, SW England Posts: 16	GL2 (PAL) and LaCie and Mac Firewire 800 issue It seems like I am not the only person to have this problem. connect it all up together and FCE won't run. seems to be software/firmware issue between the LaCie and the canon. I usually shoot on "ordinary" DV, but was given some Panasonic DVM63PQ. works great in my Canon, but my usual JVC MiniDV deck I use for editing won't play it without constant breaking up of sound, pic, and sync. So I thought, "No problem, play back from the camera..." and that's when I came acrss this strange behaviour. I found a couple of mentions on the Web, but no cure. However, worked OK when I left the LaCie on the FW800 bus, and put the camera on the 400 bus. Strange. Comments, anyone? N __________________ f8, and be there!

June 28th, 2006, 09:56 AM	#2
Tim Johnson Regular Crew Join Date: May 2006 Location: London, England Posts: 101	Avoid Panasonic tapes at all costs mate. We disposed of a load at college due to the fact that they seemed to be damaging the head of cameras. They did exactly the same on all of the camera/pc/reader combos. I bought my own packs of Maxell, had no problems! __________________ (Wishes to be more informative and helpful than a nuisance)

June 28th, 2006, 12:53 PM	#4
Jarrod Whaley Major Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: chattanooga, tn Posts: 721	I've never heard of anyone else complaining about Panny tapes. In fact, most users tend to think they're the best available. I'm not trying to undermine what tim was saying, I just thought I'd point out that the majority of shooters I've talked to actually prefer Panasonic tape stock, and many use nothing else. __________________ -->jarrod whaley. www.oakstreetfilms.com Last edited by Jarrod Whaley; June 28th, 2006 at 07:23 PM.

June 28th, 2006, 01:34 PM	#5
Tim Johnson Regular Crew Join Date: May 2006 Location: London, England Posts: 101	Well i can promise you - we had to throw out a whole load. there was no doubt that it was them. i believe its something to do with the gl2 head system and the lubricant used on the panasonic tapes, as even when we used the panasonic cleaning casettes it made little difference. maybe it was just a bad batch, but i put a maxell tape in the next day and had no problems. __________________ (Wishes to be more informative and helpful than a nuisance)

July 10th, 2006, 08:52 PM	#11
Tom Elliott Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Miami, Florida Posts: 75	hmmm, tapes, tapes, tapes, my kingdom for the BEST tape. Just jokeing. I have had my GL2 for about two years and have used only Fujifilm tapes: DVM60. The following code inside: DVM-AME U. Purchased at BJ's here in Miami, Floirda. The only time I have a problem, the dreaded "remove cassett", has only happend when going in and out of airconditioned buildings, following the Bride and Groom all over the place. Then WHAM! that dreaded error warning. IMHO it is do to the high humidity here in Miami, and does not happen when on a tripod in ONE spot, either always outside or always inside. I mean us people who wear glasses have a "Fogging" problem ALL THE TIME. Maybe I have been just lucky, but I really do not think the GL-2 (or any other camcorder for that matter) is designed for that kind of usage. One temp or the other but not within minutes. A possible solution, for weddings anyway, would be to have another camera inside for the inside shots and one for outside. I know, I know, what if I am following the subject all over the place. I really do not know a solution to that one, for I am not a newscameraman, and besides the net works give them far better equipment to use than I can afford. Well, now I feel better. Invest the above two cents wisely for I am very stingy ;-) grin. Tom Elliott __________________ Tom Elliott - Photographer http://www.tom-elliott-photography.com Studio Phone: 305-251-4315 Miami, Florida

June 29th, 2006, 06:23 AM	#10
Cliff Elliott Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Melbourne Australia Posts: 71	I to have to way in here, I have been using an XM2 for three years now and have used 150 Panasonic tapes, AY-DVM83MQ to be precise, nothing else, and I have never had a problem with either the tapes or the camera relating to head problems etc. Tim I except you had a problem and it was a serious one but as stated by others here your one bad expereince has to be wayed up against many hundreds if not thousands of users all over the world who have had no problem. Please understand I am writting this as a way of trying to add balance to the subject and am not trying to have ago at you. Regards, Cliff Elliott

September 2nd, 2006, 11:10 AM	#12
Benjamin Taft Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Gothenburg, Sweden Posts: 52	To answer the original posters question: I had the same problem and got a reply back from Lacie or Canon that there was in fact a compatability problem between the the XM2 and the Lacie discs interface. Since my computer lacks a firewire800 port I had to return the Lacie disc, a shame since they don't seem to make the fw400 only discs anymore (I have one that works flawlessly). Strange...

September 5th, 2006, 12:51 PM	#13
Ian Stark Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Hampshire, UK Posts: 2,237	To add my 2c's - there is an issue with the Canon 'hogging' the firewire bus thereby potentially dropping other firewire connections, such as an external hard disk. I can't say that this is your problem for certain but it certainly is a good place to start. There are a number of threads in this forum on the subject (er, none of which resolve the problem I'm afraid). Ian . . .