Selecting Movie Mode (Normal/Frame) at DVinfo.net

David L. Holmes · March 12th, 2006, 11:19 AM

Hello all, I've got a question about the Movie Mode feature on the GL2 camera. Lately I've been replaying video slowed down to around 50% and there are noticable image artifacts that look like Interlaced scan rate lines. Would the Movie Mode setting help correct this, or are there settings for Progressive scan rate instead?

Alan Craven · March 12th, 2006, 11:55 AM

Does your editing software not offer de-interlacing, or other smoothing?

David L. Holmes · March 12th, 2006, 12:46 PM

I am using Ulead Media Studio Pro 8, but I also have Premeier Elements and Ulead Videostudio 9. I have not seen or tried anything like smoothing or a de-interlacing filter. I'll dig deeper into the program and check it out.

David Ennis · March 12th, 2006, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David L. Holmes

Hello all, I've got a question about the Movie Mode feature on the GL2 camera. Lately I've been replaying video slowed down to around 50% and there are noticable image artifacts that look like Interlaced scan rate lines. Would the Movie Mode setting help correct this, or are there settings for Progressive scan rate instead?

Yes, the GL2's frame mode virtually eliminates that comb-like effect that appears on fast moving edges in 60i mode. The trade-off is a bit of jerkiness in the motion which some people sense at normal speed and which will probably be accentuated at half-speed.

Travis Cossel · March 19th, 2006, 05:04 PM

I just got out of a showing with a couple for a wedding, and they asked me a couple of times how I got the "film effect". The answer is that I just shoot in "Frame Mode". It's that simple. To me it doesn't really look all that filmish, but apparently it does to a lot of people. I also use a lot of slow motion with frame mode, and I don't get artifacts or lines. I've gone as low as 25-30% speed and it's still okay. I usually try not to go below 50%, though.

Jay Patzschke · March 30th, 2006, 05:37 PM

My partner and I have been videoing in frame mode far about 6 months. We noticed after our first sporting event on dvd that when we freeze frame the picture looked terrible. I did some reading and we switched to Frame Mode. My partner complained at first when filming at a footbal game that the picture was "jumpy" but he got used to it. It never bothered me. I love the look.

Graham Bernard · March 30th, 2006, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay Patzschke

My partner and I have been videoing in frame mode far about 6 months. We noticed after our first sporting event on dvd that when we freeze frame the picture looked terrible. I did some reading and we switched to Frame Mode. My partner complained at first when filming at a footbal game that the picture was "jumpy" but he got used to it. It never bothered me. I love the look.

Jay? - "My partner and I have been videoing in frame mode far about 6 months. " . . ok, then you say, " . . . on dvd that when we freeze frame the picture looked terrible." . . . and we switched to Frame Mode. " So ARE you filming in Film Mode now? And were you when your partner saw the freeze frame?

Regards,

Grazie

Dale Guthormsen · April 1st, 2006, 08:13 PM

jay,

I film mostly action stuff. It was from suggestions from this list that I started using frame mode. I have some superlative footage and definitively have had less issues with slow motion. I have found that going below 60% it is also useful to use a slow motion software package. If I had the cash I would shoot frame and then use twixtor.

Dale

Mark Donnell · April 2nd, 2006, 12:48 PM

I have both a GL-2 and a DVX-100A. The video from these two cameras, with the GL-2 in frame mode and the DVX-100 at 30 FPS looks very different. In slow-motion playback you can easily see the frames on the DVX recording, but the frames from the GL-2 are much smoother and more difficult to identify. I also found that neither the GL-2 manuel nor the Cannon web-site say much about what is really going on in the frame mode. I have noted some comments on this user board about a loss of resolution when using the GL-2 in frame mode. My question to those who are very knowledgable about this subject is whether it is better to record in interlaced mode and to then de-interlace in post-production, or to shoot with the GL-2 in frame mode, especially with regards to resolution.

David Ennis · April 2nd, 2006, 02:05 PM

Mark,
Go to post #6 in this thread, where Boyd Ostroff corrects my oversimplification of Frame Mode with a Panasonic link that compares frame mode to true progressive in great detail.
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...gl2+frame+mode

What it boils down to is that you get 480 lines of resolution with true progressive, 360 lines with 60i and 320 lines with frame mode. That 40 lines isn't much of a price to pay for for many viewers, used to NTSC broadcasts at 330 lines anyway.

And the subject becomes so deep when deterministic factors mix with probablistic factors (e.g. random pixel straddling of some image edges), and objective factors mix with subjective ones, that there are some experts who will say that even with DVD played on regular TVs you get only about 340 lines.

Anyway, if I interpreted the article at the above link correctly, I don't think that there is any way to deinterlace in post that won't cost just as much in terms of resolution as frame mode.

Mark Donnell · April 3rd, 2006, 11:30 AM

Fred - Thanks so much for that link ! The article was outstanding, and answered all of my questions. Its really nice to have access to such a community of helpful professionals. Best regards, Mark

David L. Holmes · April 3rd, 2006, 02:29 PM

You know... With all this knowledge I now have about video, I still don't know how I can go to my wife and explain to her "Honey, I know I just bought a $2,000.00 camera... but I need a new one that is 16:9 native 3CCD chip, 1024 Progressive scan." -long pause- SMACK!!!!!

Chris Burgess · April 4th, 2006, 09:14 AM

I shoot mostly action sports and always shoot with frame mode. I use the frame mode but adjust my set up levels to increase the sharpness, color saturation, etc. i also run a shutter speed of anywhere between 500-2000 as well, depending on lighting conditions, lens filters, and so on. when i cut and edit i can (throught pp1.5) bring the speed down to about 30% and have the shot be just as clear as it was at 100%, just be sure to find and uncheck the frame blend for speed changes selection...

In all actuality the only time i do not use the frame mode is in extreme low light situations, this is because i have noticed that the shots i get are really grainy as opposed to the standard mode, which is only slightly grainy...

Dale Guthormsen · April 4th, 2006, 08:48 PM

Chris,

would you explain the frame blend thing?? Is that in post or is that something on the camera I am not aware of!!

dale guthormsen

Chris Burgess · April 5th, 2006, 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dale Guthormsen

Chris,

would you explain the frame blend thing?? Is that in post or is that something on the camera I am not aware of!!

dale guthormsen

sure! what i am talking about is in post if you work with premiere 1.5 (not sure about older versions).

when you are working in pp and add a clip to the time line, you can right click the clip and it pulls up a menu right? in this menu is a selection for field options (which btw, is the same selection for the de-interlace options). at the bottom of this little menu there is a checked box for "frame blend speed changes", why this box is checked by default i do not know, most of the work i have done and have seen or talked with others about involves always unchecking this selection.

i used to get nasty slo mo shots and when i would use a speed increase for comedic effect it was so bad you could not get any kind of focus with the shot, then i found this little puppy and probably about 90% of my problems were fixed. some of the fast motion stuff is still a little shaky but better than it was...

i mentioned the adjustment of set up levels before as a way to fight the lowered resolution with the frame mode, not sure if it was clear when i first said something. there is a sharpness setting that i jack up pretty high to compensate and to the naked eye it does a decent enough job. that combined with a higher shutter speed is one of the ways i have been able to still retain decent slo mo shots...

hope all that helps!

ps, how do you like your bolex (sorry for the off topic question)?

March 12th, 2006, 11:19 AM	#1
David L. Holmes Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Detroit, MI USA Posts: 96	Selecting Movie Mode (Normal/Frame) Hello all, I've got a question about the Movie Mode feature on the GL2 camera. Lately I've been replaying video slowed down to around 50% and there are noticable image artifacts that look like Interlaced scan rate lines. Would the Movie Mode setting help correct this, or are there settings for Progressive scan rate instead?

March 19th, 2006, 05:04 PM	#5
Travis Cossel Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 2,933	I just got out of a showing with a couple for a wedding, and they asked me a couple of times how I got the "film effect". The answer is that I just shoot in "Frame Mode". It's that simple. To me it doesn't really look all that filmish, but apparently it does to a lot of people. I also use a lot of slow motion with frame mode, and I don't get artifacts or lines. I've gone as low as 25-30% speed and it's still okay. I usually try not to go below 50%, though. __________________ Black Label Films www.blacklabelweddingfilms.com

April 1st, 2006, 08:13 PM	#8
Dale Guthormsen Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Saskatchewan Posts: 3,048	Frame Mode jay, I film mostly action stuff. It was from suggestions from this list that I started using frame mode. I have some superlative footage and definitively have had less issues with slow motion. I have found that going below 60% it is also useful to use a slow motion software package. If I had the cash I would shoot frame and then use twixtor. Dale

April 2nd, 2006, 12:48 PM	#9
Mark Donnell Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Silver City, NM Posts: 385	Frame mode and resolution I have both a GL-2 and a DVX-100A. The video from these two cameras, with the GL-2 in frame mode and the DVX-100 at 30 FPS looks very different. In slow-motion playback you can easily see the frames on the DVX recording, but the frames from the GL-2 are much smoother and more difficult to identify. I also found that neither the GL-2 manuel nor the Cannon web-site say much about what is really going on in the frame mode. I have noted some comments on this user board about a loss of resolution when using the GL-2 in frame mode. My question to those who are very knowledgable about this subject is whether it is better to record in interlaced mode and to then de-interlace in post-production, or to shoot with the GL-2 in frame mode, especially with regards to resolution.

April 2nd, 2006, 02:05 PM	#10
David Ennis Fred Retread Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Hartford, CT Posts: 1,227	Mark, Go to post #6 in this thread, where Boyd Ostroff corrects my oversimplification of Frame Mode with a Panasonic link that compares frame mode to true progressive in great detail. http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...gl2+frame+mode What it boils down to is that you get 480 lines of resolution with true progressive, 360 lines with 60i and 320 lines with frame mode. That 40 lines isn't much of a price to pay for for many viewers, used to NTSC broadcasts at 330 lines anyway. And the subject becomes so deep when deterministic factors mix with probablistic factors (e.g. random pixel straddling of some image edges), and objective factors mix with subjective ones, that there are some experts who will say that even with DVD played on regular TVs you get only about 340 lines. Anyway, if I interpreted the article at the above link correctly, I don't think that there is any way to deinterlace in post that won't cost just as much in terms of resolution as frame mode. __________________ "Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence..." - Calvin Coolidge "My brain is wired to want to know how other things are wired." - Me Last edited by David Ennis; April 2nd, 2006 at 03:03 PM.

March 12th, 2006, 11:55 AM	#2
Alan Craven Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: York, England Posts: 518	Does your editing software not offer de-interlacing, or other smoothing?

March 12th, 2006, 12:46 PM	#3
David L. Holmes Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Detroit, MI USA Posts: 96	I am using Ulead Media Studio Pro 8, but I also have Premeier Elements and Ulead Videostudio 9. I have not seen or tried anything like smoothing or a de-interlacing filter. I'll dig deeper into the program and check it out.

March 30th, 2006, 05:37 PM	#6
Jay Patzschke Tourist Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Lafayette, IN Posts: 3	Jay Patzschke My partner and I have been videoing in frame mode far about 6 months. We noticed after our first sporting event on dvd that when we freeze frame the picture looked terrible. I did some reading and we switched to Frame Mode. My partner complained at first when filming at a footbal game that the picture was "jumpy" but he got used to it. It never bothered me. I love the look.

April 3rd, 2006, 11:30 AM	#11
Mark Donnell Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Silver City, NM Posts: 385	Fred - Thanks so much for that link ! The article was outstanding, and answered all of my questions. Its really nice to have access to such a community of helpful professionals. Best regards, Mark

April 3rd, 2006, 02:29 PM	#12
David L. Holmes Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Detroit, MI USA Posts: 96	You know... With all this knowledge I now have about video, I still don't know how I can go to my wife and explain to her "Honey, I know I just bought a $2,000.00 camera... but I need a new one that is 16:9 native 3CCD chip, 1024 Progressive scan." -long pause- SMACK!!!!!

April 4th, 2006, 09:14 AM	#13
Chris Burgess Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Atlanta, Georgia Posts: 30	I shoot mostly action sports and always shoot with frame mode. I use the frame mode but adjust my set up levels to increase the sharpness, color saturation, etc. i also run a shutter speed of anywhere between 500-2000 as well, depending on lighting conditions, lens filters, and so on. when i cut and edit i can (throught pp1.5) bring the speed down to about 30% and have the shot be just as clear as it was at 100%, just be sure to find and uncheck the frame blend for speed changes selection... In all actuality the only time i do not use the frame mode is in extreme low light situations, this is because i have noticed that the shots i get are really grainy as opposed to the standard mode, which is only slightly grainy...

April 4th, 2006, 08:48 PM	#14
Dale Guthormsen Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Saskatchewan Posts: 3,048	Frame blend Chris, would you explain the frame blend thing?? Is that in post or is that something on the camera I am not aware of!! dale guthormsen __________________ DATS ALL FOLKS Dale W. Guthormsen