Setting a GL2 for smooth slow motion replay at DVinfo.net

Brad Higerd · January 18th, 2003, 11:03 PM

After searching for some information in past threads, I'm resolving to start another new one.

What I want to know is if anyone has some good advise on how to set up a GL2 so the resulting video can be played back slowly and somewhat smoothly?

Mark Austin · January 21st, 2003, 01:05 AM

there have been a few threads on this subject. Do you want to just play back slowly, or are you thinking about using the timed sequence mode? You may want to try some stuff in frame mode as the interlacing won't be as visible. Let me know though and we'll try to get you the skinny!
Thanks,
Mark

Rob Lohman · January 21st, 2003, 04:29 AM

I suggest to go in frame mode (due to not have interlacing
problems) and use a high shutter speed (so that you have no
or as little as possible strobing, softening and (motion) blur
in the image -> which can add after the slowing down if you
still want it)

Brad Higerd · January 21st, 2003, 09:17 AM

Without too much technical explanation, as I am an engineer at work and hope not to be here, when is it most suitable to shoot in Frame Mode? When is it better to shoot in Normal Mode?

I have read on other threads that resolution is better in Normal Mode. This is confusing when Canon advertises that Frame Mode can capture every gesture...

If a technical answer is necessary, please feel free to go that route. Engaging my brain may not kill me.

Thank you.

Rob Lohman · January 21st, 2003, 12:21 PM

Well, talking about frame mode and resolution is difficult. Since
it can mean 2 or more things. The actual pixel resolution (ie,
720x480 for NTSC or 720x576 for PAL) will not change
ofcourse. However, the picture is being made from a lower
resolution (due to the tricks Canon uses to get frame/progressive
mode) then when you are using interlaced mode.

I personally never shoot interlaced (almost). I just don't like to
de-interlace etc. If you shoot for slow motion it is wise in my
opinion to shoot frame/progressive mode as well simply to not
have the difficulties of interlacing artifects when you are creating
more frames/fields to get the slow motion effect.

Other than that it mostly depends on preference and final distribution
media.

Brad Higerd · January 21st, 2003, 01:04 PM

Rob, thanks for the quick reply.

On the subject of distribution media, my problems get a little bigger. The marketing of our program is predicted to be on DVD+R while the ultimate broadcast is planned for NTSC captured from a PC through an ATI 8500DV video card onto a Betacam.

Now if all that sounds like I know what I'm talking about, then a whale might sound like a dog.

I have become the organizer of a sizable project in which one ex-TV employee and a lot of college dreamers make up the majority of our tech crew. While the goal is broadcast, considerable work is beginning to make our product look good for DVD.

All that aside, I went home this morning and shoot some footage in Frame Mode with the Setup switched to -2 (two places to the left of center). It looked a lot better than the Normal Mode footage I have been taking. In fact, it did reduce the interlace artifacting which was disturbing in Normal Mode.

Having little doubt that you and others replying to my pleas for help know this camera (and cameras in general) better than I, please know that I am eager to read any hints you have to make the GL2's footage look great.

Brad

Rob Lohman · January 21st, 2003, 04:08 PM

I'm a little "off" as to why you would want to output through
an ATI card onto Betacam. I would either go directly out of the
camera (you can edit and put your movie back on tape!) or
have it recorded off a GOOD DVD player. I would not go through
a display card, no way (there is a lot of conversion going on
here!).

Now I don't know much details about the GL1/2 since I myself
have a Canon XL1s. But the cameras are very similiar in what
options etc. they have.

If you shoot in frame mode ALL interlacing artifacts should be
gone since there is no more interlacing. What you might see
though is stairstepping (where a slant line or corner creates
a non-straight line) or motion blurring (etc.) due to a low shutter
speed.

I suggest you try shooting in frame mode at a 1/60th shutter
at 0 or -3 db gain. Keep the most things manual. See how footage
looks then. You can change the iris (f-stop) to compensate for
different light levels. I myself am a big fan of spending time in
post work to color correct the image etc. to further fine tune it.
You'd be amazed at what a little letterboxing (creating a wide-
screen looking image) and a bit of color fiddling can get you!

Good luck, if you want to know more search around on the topics
I mentioned or let me know.

Cheers!

p.s. if you shoot for slow motion it might we wise to increase
the shutter to 1/100th or higher depending on how much motion
is in the image. Try different shutter settings and slow each
movie down with the same settings (try to shoot the same
movement each time) and see what looks best! For "normal"
shooting I'd go with 1/60th or if light is a problem to 1/30th.
Don't go any lower or you'll start to get a "drunken" image (which
can be an effect ofcourse)

Brad Higerd · January 21st, 2003, 04:31 PM

Thanks Rob. You have helped a lot!

The only reason we are considering capture to Beta tap is to have something most TV stations can use. What I am understanding is that stations are beginning to acquire miniDV capability, and we are probably 8-12 months from airing.

I thought long and hard about your Canon and the Pana DVX100, and my wife said no to both. For my FIRST miniDV, the GL2 is a nice start.

I really do appreciate your help,
Brad

Rob Lohman · January 21st, 2003, 04:34 PM

Brad,

If you are gonna air in that amount of time I'd worry about your
product first instead of what the final format will be. Changes are
that if a TV station wants they will accept miniDV. And if they don't
just bring your camera with the DV **BACKUP** TAPE and they'll
probably just hook it up to a betacam or digibeta and copy it on
there. Don't worry.

The GL2 is an excellent camera! Don't worry, it will give you
enough quality!

Nancy Hussey · January 26th, 2003, 01:40 PM

Would you say it's best to use the frame mode when shooting surfing footage?
High quality grabbed frames are somewhat more important to me (so far) than the video itself. I'm a true beginner with this editing stuff!

I've had the GL-2 for two weeks... just waiting around for waves!

Thanks,
Nancy

Brad Higerd · January 26th, 2003, 09:01 PM

I think Rob is right to say that he almost never shoots interlaced. After doing some extensive testing, I too am a frame mode fan! The footage just looks better (subjective possibly).

Brad Higerd · January 26th, 2003, 09:07 PM

Hey Nancy,

I almost didn't notice your location. I'm from James Island. It really is a small world (for anyone interested, James Island and Folly Beach are separated by a bridge and a few speed traps).

These guys on this forum really know their stuff. Don't hesitate to ask them for help.

Your old neighbor,
Brad

Rob Lohman · January 27th, 2003, 07:45 AM

Nancy,

If you are looking for nice and easy screen grabs I suggest
frame mode, because it will take away the problem that you
have to de-interlace the footage otherwise.

But the best piece of advice I can give you is to try both! Just
see how you like it and how easy it is for you to handle both
types.

Good luck!

Nancy Hussey · January 29th, 2003, 01:11 PM

Thanks y'all.. you're right, i will just have to play with it.

BRAD! I cannot believe you're from James Island. What a small world, huh?! How long since you've been home? If you get a little homesick, check out follysurfcam.com...keep in mind that I am NOT a photographer.. just a point and clicker :)

That having been said, I will read, read read all I can on here, and try to keep the embarrasingly dumb questions to a minimum.

Thanks for your help,
Nancy

Kevin Foristal · March 24th, 2003, 06:53 PM

Any TV station that is a DVCPRO house can use Mini-DV tapes. Panasonic makes an adapter that will play the tape in the broadcast machines.

We do that all the time

January 18th, 2003, 11:03 PM	#1
Brad Higerd Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 186	Setting a GL2 for smooth slow motion replay After searching for some information in past threads, I'm resolving to start another new one. What I want to know is if anyone has some good advise on how to set up a GL2 so the resulting video can be played back slowly and somewhat smoothly?

January 21st, 2003, 01:05 AM	#2
Mark Austin Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 188	Good question there have been a few threads on this subject. Do you want to just play back slowly, or are you thinking about using the timed sequence mode? You may want to try some stuff in frame mode as the interlacing won't be as visible. Let me know though and we'll try to get you the skinny! Thanks, Mark __________________ I'm humbled by the greatness that surrounds me.

January 21st, 2003, 04:29 AM	#3
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	I suggest to go in frame mode (due to not have interlacing problems) and use a high shutter speed (so that you have no or as little as possible strobing, softening and (motion) blur in the image -> which can add after the slowing down if you still want it) __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

January 21st, 2003, 12:21 PM	#5
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	Well, talking about frame mode and resolution is difficult. Since it can mean 2 or more things. The actual pixel resolution (ie, 720x480 for NTSC or 720x576 for PAL) will not change ofcourse. However, the picture is being made from a lower resolution (due to the tricks Canon uses to get frame/progressive mode) then when you are using interlaced mode. I personally never shoot interlaced (almost). I just don't like to de-interlace etc. If you shoot for slow motion it is wise in my opinion to shoot frame/progressive mode as well simply to not have the difficulties of interlacing artifects when you are creating more frames/fields to get the slow motion effect. Other than that it mostly depends on preference and final distribution media. __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

January 21st, 2003, 04:08 PM	#7
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	I'm a little "off" as to why you would want to output through an ATI card onto Betacam. I would either go directly out of the camera (you can edit and put your movie back on tape!) or have it recorded off a GOOD DVD player. I would not go through a display card, no way (there is a lot of conversion going on here!). Now I don't know much details about the GL1/2 since I myself have a Canon XL1s. But the cameras are very similiar in what options etc. they have. If you shoot in frame mode ALL interlacing artifacts should be gone since there is no more interlacing. What you might see though is stairstepping (where a slant line or corner creates a non-straight line) or motion blurring (etc.) due to a low shutter speed. I suggest you try shooting in frame mode at a 1/60th shutter at 0 or -3 db gain. Keep the most things manual. See how footage looks then. You can change the iris (f-stop) to compensate for different light levels. I myself am a big fan of spending time in post work to color correct the image etc. to further fine tune it. You'd be amazed at what a little letterboxing (creating a wide- screen looking image) and a bit of color fiddling can get you! Good luck, if you want to know more search around on the topics I mentioned or let me know. Cheers! p.s. if you shoot for slow motion it might we wise to increase the shutter to 1/100th or higher depending on how much motion is in the image. Try different shutter settings and slow each movie down with the same settings (try to shoot the same movement each time) and see what looks best! For "normal" shooting I'd go with 1/60th or if light is a problem to 1/30th. Don't go any lower or you'll start to get a "drunken" image (which can be an effect ofcourse) __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

January 21st, 2003, 09:17 AM	#4
Brad Higerd Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 186	Without too much technical explanation, as I am an engineer at work and hope not to be here, when is it most suitable to shoot in Frame Mode? When is it better to shoot in Normal Mode? I have read on other threads that resolution is better in Normal Mode. This is confusing when Canon advertises that Frame Mode can capture every gesture... If a technical answer is necessary, please feel free to go that route. Engaging my brain may not kill me. Thank you.

January 21st, 2003, 01:04 PM	#6
Brad Higerd Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 186	Rob, thanks for the quick reply. On the subject of distribution media, my problems get a little bigger. The marketing of our program is predicted to be on DVD+R while the ultimate broadcast is planned for NTSC captured from a PC through an ATI 8500DV video card onto a Betacam. Now if all that sounds like I know what I'm talking about, then a whale might sound like a dog. I have become the organizer of a sizable project in which one ex-TV employee and a lot of college dreamers make up the majority of our tech crew. While the goal is broadcast, considerable work is beginning to make our product look good for DVD. All that aside, I went home this morning and shoot some footage in Frame Mode with the Setup switched to -2 (two places to the left of center). It looked a lot better than the Normal Mode footage I have been taking. In fact, it did reduce the interlace artifacting which was disturbing in Normal Mode. Having little doubt that you and others replying to my pleas for help know this camera (and cameras in general) better than I, please know that I am eager to read any hints you have to make the GL2's footage look great. Brad

January 21st, 2003, 04:31 PM	#8
Brad Higerd Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 186	Thanks Rob. You have helped a lot! The only reason we are considering capture to Beta tap is to have something most TV stations can use. What I am understanding is that stations are beginning to acquire miniDV capability, and we are probably 8-12 months from airing. I thought long and hard about your Canon and the Pana DVX100, and my wife said no to both. For my FIRST miniDV, the GL2 is a nice start. I really do appreciate your help, Brad

January 21st, 2003, 04:34 PM	#9
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	Brad, If you are gonna air in that amount of time I'd worry about your product first instead of what the final format will be. Changes are that if a TV station wants they will accept miniDV. And if they don't just bring your camera with the DV BACKUP TAPE and they'll probably just hook it up to a betacam or digibeta and copy it on there. Don't worry. The GL2 is an excellent camera! Don't worry, it will give you enough quality! __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

January 26th, 2003, 01:40 PM	#10
Nancy Hussey New Boot Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Folly Beach, South Carolina Posts: 7	surfing footage frame grab Would you say it's best to use the frame mode when shooting surfing footage? High quality grabbed frames are somewhat more important to me (so far) than the video itself. I'm a true beginner with this editing stuff! I've had the GL-2 for two weeks... just waiting around for waves! Thanks, Nancy

January 26th, 2003, 09:01 PM	#11
Brad Higerd Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 186	I think Rob is right to say that he almost never shoots interlaced. After doing some extensive testing, I too am a frame mode fan! The footage just looks better (subjective possibly).

January 26th, 2003, 09:07 PM	#12
Brad Higerd Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 186	Hey Nancy, I almost didn't notice your location. I'm from James Island. It really is a small world (for anyone interested, James Island and Folly Beach are separated by a bridge and a few speed traps). These guys on this forum really know their stuff. Don't hesitate to ask them for help. Your old neighbor, Brad

January 27th, 2003, 07:45 AM	#13
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	Nancy, If you are looking for nice and easy screen grabs I suggest frame mode, because it will take away the problem that you have to de-interlace the footage otherwise. But the best piece of advice I can give you is to try both! Just see how you like it and how easy it is for you to handle both types. Good luck! __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

January 29th, 2003, 01:11 PM	#14
Nancy Hussey New Boot Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Folly Beach, South Carolina Posts: 7	Thanks y'all.. you're right, i will just have to play with it. BRAD! I cannot believe you're from James Island. What a small world, huh?! How long since you've been home? If you get a little homesick, check out follysurfcam.com...keep in mind that I am NOT a photographer.. just a point and clicker :) That having been said, I will read, read read all I can on here, and try to keep the embarrasingly dumb questions to a minimum. Thanks for your help, Nancy

March 24th, 2003, 06:53 PM	#15
Kevin Foristal Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Tulsa, Ok Posts: 66	TV Stations using dv video Any TV station that is a DVCPRO house can use Mini-DV tapes. Panasonic makes an adapter that will play the tape in the broadcast machines. We do that all the time