frustrated about which camera to buy, i think..

[bokkus37]

hi there and howdy,

my name is p and i am a film maker, eh, digital movie maker.

i'm somewhat fresh out of school (fullsail) and have been living with the parents for the past few months. today i found out i didn't get the job i didn't want anyway. the job was in public television and required me to shoot and edit stuff in the state senate. just an internship but it could of led to a fulltime job and georgia public television. a fulltime job doing stuff that isn't fun.

and now i'm back to what i want to do, make low budget dark comedies.

anyways, before someone gets angry about my huge introduction, i want to buy a gl-2. frankly because it's cheap. but the other reason is something i hate to say but, it just plain looks cool, expecially with that Croiszeil matte box. i'm pretty sure that buying a camera based on it's looks is a bad thing but come on, it's red and white! yeah sure, i'd like to get an xl-1s but it's more money, also i'd have to get another lens instead of the one that comes with it.

can someone give me more reasons to invest in a gl-2 rather than an xl-1s. i'd really appreciate it.

[Ken Tanaka]

Hello "P",
As an owner of both the GL2 and XL1s I can tell you the GL2 is an excellent camera and an excellent value. You'll find abundant discussion on these forums to fill-in every possible detail on the GL2 and the XL1s. The decision concerning which to buy must be grounded in your budget and the types of work you anticipate doing, not on looking cool. (You'll need to spend much, much more to really look cool anyway<g>.) Remember that if you have any expectation of doing near-professional work you'll need to budget for many other items (ex: lighting, sound) besides the camera, the total of which could easily match or exceed the cost of the camera.

[Frank Granovski]

Yesterday I looked at the GL2 again for the 10th time or so. One day I just might buy one. It is a darn nice cam. I also played with a DVX100, but I kept looking at the GL2 sitting on the shelf, til finally I got the sales person to grab it for me.

If you can't afford the GL2, look at that 1 ccd Sharp cam I have posted at:

http://www.dvfreak.com/buyersguide.htm

It's getting a lot of interest lately.

[Bill Hardy]

From what I gather the XL1s is getting long in tooth and needs upgrading. The resolution of the GL2 is arguably sharper. See top thread of this forum which has links to XL1/GL2 comparison, and check out my GL2 video still frames if you haven't already:

http://homepage.mac.com/bhardy3/PhotoAlbum8.html

[Bjørn Sørensen]

I have never heard about this 'Croiszeil' Matte Box you mentioned. Where can I find more informations about it??

[Ken Tanaka]

For example, at ZGC:

http://www.zgc.com/html/chrosziel_3x3_dv_sunshade.html

[Don Donatello]

IMO do NOT invest .. just BUY it ... it's not going to be worth more next week/month/year ...

the GL2 is a good camera ... IMO all these 3 chip under 4K camera's are very close on image .. some will prefer the sony 2000 others XL , others 24P ... IMO there is NO knock out winner that makes the others obsolite ....
you can't go wrong with any of em ..so buy the one that FEELS right to you or has the "look " you like , and it does what you need it to do !!!

[Tom Christensen]

But that XL1S sure is a damned sexy machine isn’t it? It shows up in TV, movies and almost every pro-oriented accessory ad. When I was a kid I wanted a Fender Strat. because all the rock stars played them (the good ones anyway). Only thing was, I couldn't play. My parent told me that they would buy a Sears guitar and if I could learn to play, they would pony up the extra bucks and get a Fender. The Sears kept going out of tune, developed a mean warp in the neck, buzzed like a chainsaw and I swear, the damned think shocked me once. I didn't like to play too much.

At 37, I opted for the GL2 because I make home movies and pretend to direct my family and friends around the house in random artistic and dictatorial fashion. The GL2 was a stretch for that purpose, but I love it.

If you really want have a go at it, figure out a way and spend a lot of money on the XL1S and get some cool stuff with it. Get it now before your brain ages and gets all realistic and looks for justification and rationale.

Just my opinion.

Tom

[Ken Tanaka]

"donatello" makes a good point. An investment anticipates a return, usually financial. Prosumer video equipment depreciates almost as fast as a loaf of bread. So, unless you really plan to earn income from this equipment it's an expense, and not necesarily a small one, at that. My point: as Tom suggested, be rational with your budget and priorities. It's easy to become carried away with this stuff. What you shoot is far more important that what you use to shoot.

[Graham Bernard]

Ken - Hmmm.... very interesting

I've truly thought long and hard about your views on investment.

You are right - in the short-term "financial" returns (ROI) might or might not be part of the decision buying process. Yes? Okay, now what other types of "investment" could we be talking about?

It could be an investment in our own up-skilling. Personally, I can't put a value on this. I found many different projects I've done in my life have required me to invest both money and time - mostly time. And yes my time is expensive.

So, if you aren't going to go into penury, take out a second mortgage, need to send the kids out to work then truly consider buying this cammy. If it isn't a financial consideration then what is hobbling one's decision in buying? - IMHO, it is permission. Permission from our nearest and dearest or from pros. Permissions, and the seeking of them, take up a lot of my, and IMHO our time. I have internal conversations with myself, trying to way up the pros and cons. I mix this with feedback from family and friends and see if possible if there would be final outcome that would assist me down a route I wish to travel. And maybe, maybe, see if there could be any real time returns on such an endevour - was it ever thus! Yes, these returns may be financial, but fundamentally it is one of assuaging, what Vorstein Veblin called "Idle Curiousity". He recognised this as a prime mover/motivator in most human endevours. He then, if my memory serves me correctly, tied this into the growth of consumerism etc etc. Veblin was a latter day Vance Packard, who in turn wrote widely on the Consumer society.

I realise this may be way off beam from the purpose of this forum, but I don't think so.

Seeking and obtaining permissions can colour our decision to go ahead with a creative process. DV activity has brought the options for spontaeneous, urgent and, for some of us,"affordable" ways in producing artwork, yes artwork, that contains moving pictures and audio. The editing process has allowed us to take advantage of all this dv medium and has provided us the where-with-all to shape, form and mould this into a complete and succint artform "available" to the viewer and in many different delivery media - dvd, vcd, svcd or VHS, and now in a form that can be suitable for web broadcast. This last option potentially gives us a global viewing audience.

Getting back on beam or focus! If I now think of a video project, I get to grips with it by literally "sketching" it out, moving onto Word and getting some of those thoughts down on my laptop screeen - move onto a simple storyboard/format and then head for the hills, park, street or whatever.

For those of you who know of Wembley Stadium - a place of worship for Soccer/Football fans - is being demolished to make way for a 21st century stadium. And to day, 6th december 2002, the famous Twin Towers (built in 1923!) are being removed. Guess where I'll be with my new XM2? Wembley is literally a 10 minute drive from me. I've given my self the permission to "capture" this event. I am confident that this XM2 will not let me down - though I can't speak of the cameram's ability to make use of it.

So Ken, you really have given me a "permission" to formulate and collect my thoughts on a topic, which I've been considering for some time now. I hope my diatribe has been of value to others. And if it hasn't, I apologise for taking up your time in reading this.....

My best regards

Grazie

[Ken Tanaka]

Grazie,
Indeed, "returns" can come in forms other than financial. Emotional and intellectual fulfillment is certainly a valid form of return, the precipitants of which are certainly beyond valuation.

I suppose that the message I was trying to convey is that folks should be clear and honest with themselves before committing relatively substantial sums toward this seductive equipment. It sounds as if "bokkus37" is a young person trying to get his first foothold in a career direction, perhaps with scarce resources. His mentioning "investment" suggested that his expectations may be (to hack a line from Field of Dreams) "Buy it and the income will come.", to which my retort would be (hacking a lyric from Porgy and Bess) "It ain't necessarily so...".

Yes, I'm sure we've wandered far afield from "bokkus37"s original query and into a broader roundtable discussion. <g>

[Frank Granovski]

>It sounds as if "bokkus37" is a young person trying to get his first foothold in a career direction, perhaps with scarce resources. His mentioning "investment"<

That's why I suggested that Sharp cam: good manual controls, wide/ long lens, good sized CCD, high res, hot shoe for a mic. etc---all at a cheap price. You can make money with a cam like this. 5 years ago, a cam like this would sell for 2 Grand US or more. Today, well under 1 Grand.

[bokkus37]

the gl-2 will be a sizable "investment", but not back breaking. i'll be selling my laptop on ebay, plus a friend at wolf camera will get me a huge discount. and yes, i was the chap a few months ago that graduated from a trade school called fullsail, and yes, i got sidetracked by working in public television to get my parents off my backside. but now i am pressing on. after i purchase my camera and while i'm waiting on other equipment (mic, good sticks, talent) i'll be making shorts for the internet to get back into the swing of things.

[Graham Bernard]

Bokkus37 - Brilliant! Go for it!

You sound like a level-headed chap. Getting rid of one piece of equipment to assist you to upgrade your "toolbox" of kit. Nicely thought through.

Although this discussion may have "wandered" a bit, it appears you have, at least for me, helped me in getting my thoughts lined up.

Cheers & have lots of fun!

Grazie

[Ken Tanaka]

Good for you, "bokkus37". Go get 'em!