GL1 GL2 Color Comparison at DVinfo.net

Bill Hardy · November 6th, 2002, 08:46 PM

I decided to get shots of ribbons for the comparo, using the GL1 in auto mode, comparing it to the auto mode of the GL2 and then the CP mode of the GL2.

Here is the kicker: When it came to CP mode, not only was the GL2 color gain cranked up full blast, but I found color can be even MORE saturated by lowering the Setup Level. What I saw was very interesting. In auto mode the GL1 bested the GL2 in yellows, pinks and oranges, but was sadly lacking in the purple department. The GL2's auto mode pink, though tamer, looked more elegantly accurate, like a true delicate pink, while the GL2's auto mode purple looked a bit bluish.

With the above mentioned CP settings the GL2 bested the GL1 in all colors tested, in a big way, especially with the color purple. This test has nothing to do with skin tones, just color intensity. Color phase was not adjusted in this test on either camera.
I imagine if Setup Level is also adjusted as well as other controls a bit even the warm skin tones of the GL1 might be duplicated, or even surpassed, but that is just a possibility, not a proven fact. Here is the link:

http://homepage.mac.com/bhardy3/PhotoAlbum31.html

Graham Bernard · November 7th, 2002, 03:39 AM

Buddy! - Fabulous control experimentation! Thank you very much.

I've just printed your work onto HP deskjet glossy paper and I can see what you mean.

I'm stacking up more and more reasons to go with the XM2 [UK] here in London UK.

Oh by the way, my preferred retailer for the Canon has now discounted the XM2 by £50gbp - do I wait longer? That 50 quid has gone towards a Seinnheiser....

Many grateful regards,

Grazie

Andre De Clercq · November 7th, 2002, 04:18 AM

It's very normal that the subjective color "saturation" changes if set-up (or the brightness setting on TV) are changed. This just changes the ratio (in non linear fashion!) between luma and chroma in the scene, and this ratio is what "saturation" is all about. However, changing brightness (or set up) is not the way to go if you want the original color (and grayscale) to be kept. Suppose you have an redish-orange area. This is composed out of a red and a small amount of green. If the brighness is being lowered the green gets into cut-off (not visible) and you end up with red only...For color combinations containing higher RGB levels, cut-off is not an issue but color changes(hue) are still there.

Bill Hardy · November 7th, 2002, 04:44 AM

This could be why the GL2 CP purple shot looks more accurately purple to me. One of the primary colors is being cut off and it is just coincidence it happens to be the necessary color to make a more accurate match. Your point is taken, and of course I would never use a totally minimal setup level setting as shown in the CP purple pic. However keep in mind the GL2 tends to be less contrasty to begin with and a step or two down in setup level may not cause a drastic color shift and may possibly improve the color you are looking for. Only using the cam in the real world with human faces and such will tell, which so far I have not done with a setup level lowered a few clicks. It would be interesting to see the result.
Thanks for the additional info. Perhaps I should include shots where only the color gain was adjusted and not the setup level, as these shots are also just as important for folks to scrutinize, and the color intensity of these shots was also quite strong. Perhaps later tonite I will post more shots without setup level adjustments.

Graham Bernard · November 7th, 2002, 05:16 AM

Buddy,

I look forward to your....

"Perhaps later tonite I will post more shots without setup level adjustments."

G

Bill Hardy · November 7th, 2002, 06:24 AM

You may be also interested to know that I will try to get a shot from my Sony F-55 2.1 MP digital camera to give you hopefully a closer representation of what the ribbon colors should really look like.

Graham Bernard · November 7th, 2002, 07:49 AM

Outstanding!

I've tried to download some of your movies (?), but to date not been able to. I live in Lodon UK - do you think the piece of "string" is too far for such deliveries? - Seriously, I've got QT but don't seem to be able to get them -humfff!!! Can you do an istsy bitsy version somehow?

Keep up the excellent work.

Grazie

Bill Hardy · November 7th, 2002, 06:06 PM

The three additional pics are now posted. Notice with color gain on full blast the GL2 purple ribbon's saturation even surpasses the digital cam photo. The GL2's ribbon colors definitely seem a closer match than the GL1 as far as the digital photo is concerned. None of the cams were white balanced and all were on auto, with CP color gain maxed on the GL2. I think white balancing may have made an improvement on the GL1, but not enough to match the GL2's all around color quality and saturation. But be aware that I am slightly color blind. If anyone see's something I don't let me know.

This test does not prove the GL2 is capable of warmer video, but a broader quality is evident in my opinion, thanks to the GL2's new CP controls.

Barry Goyette · November 7th, 2002, 07:13 PM

Bill

I think that your tests help confirm that the gl2 produces a fairly accurate spectrum, although, as we see here, and in my tests earlier, yellow is a color it doesn't do well. I'm a bit suspicious of the gl1's color balance...you might, as you said, want to do a custom white balance on it to see if the warmish color cast doesn't disappear (I got nailed on this one with the xl1s comparison awhile back). I've never noticed my gl1 to be overly warm like this.

Thanks for your ideas on using the setup to control saturation.

Barry

Bill Hardy · November 7th, 2002, 08:07 PM

Quite right Barry; A frame of the color balanced GL1 is now posted. I will also color balance the GL2 to see if there is any difference.

Color balanced GL2 is posted and yellow is definitely more intense than the white balanced GL1. Of course color gain is maxed in the GL2.

I would like to take some outdoor shots with the GL2 soon, perhaps this weekend with some increased color gain because of this test; very curious as to how the video will look. Of course full blast on the color gain would be a bad idea, but I will look into an increased color gain, since it seems the gl1 has more color than the gl2 by default, especially yellow.

November 6th, 2002, 08:46 PM	#1
Bill Hardy Major Player Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 205	GL1 GL2 Color Comparison I decided to get shots of ribbons for the comparo, using the GL1 in auto mode, comparing it to the auto mode of the GL2 and then the CP mode of the GL2. Here is the kicker: When it came to CP mode, not only was the GL2 color gain cranked up full blast, but I found color can be even MORE saturated by lowering the Setup Level. What I saw was very interesting. In auto mode the GL1 bested the GL2 in yellows, pinks and oranges, but was sadly lacking in the purple department. The GL2's auto mode pink, though tamer, looked more elegantly accurate, like a true delicate pink, while the GL2's auto mode purple looked a bit bluish. With the above mentioned CP settings the GL2 bested the GL1 in all colors tested, in a big way, especially with the color purple. This test has nothing to do with skin tones, just color intensity. Color phase was not adjusted in this test on either camera. I imagine if Setup Level is also adjusted as well as other controls a bit even the warm skin tones of the GL1 might be duplicated, or even surpassed, but that is just a possibility, not a proven fact. Here is the link: http://homepage.mac.com/bhardy3/PhotoAlbum31.html

November 7th, 2002, 03:39 AM	#2
Graham Bernard Old Boot Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: London UK Posts: 3,633	Buddy! - Fabulous control experimentation! Thank you very much. I've just printed your work onto HP deskjet glossy paper and I can see what you mean. I'm stacking up more and more reasons to go with the XM2 [UK] here in London UK. Oh by the way, my preferred retailer for the Canon has now discounted the XM2 by £50gbp - do I wait longer? That 50 quid has gone towards a Seinnheiser.... Many grateful regards, Grazie

November 7th, 2002, 04:18 AM	#3
Andre De Clercq Major Player Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 804	It's very normal that the subjective color "saturation" changes if set-up (or the brightness setting on TV) are changed. This just changes the ratio (in non linear fashion!) between luma and chroma in the scene, and this ratio is what "saturation" is all about. However, changing brightness (or set up) is not the way to go if you want the original color (and grayscale) to be kept. Suppose you have an redish-orange area. This is composed out of a red and a small amount of green. If the brighness is being lowered the green gets into cut-off (not visible) and you end up with red only...For color combinations containing higher RGB levels, cut-off is not an issue but color changes(hue) are still there.

November 7th, 2002, 04:44 AM	#4
Bill Hardy Major Player Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 205	This could be why the GL2 CP purple shot looks more accurately purple to me. One of the primary colors is being cut off and it is just coincidence it happens to be the necessary color to make a more accurate match. Your point is taken, and of course I would never use a totally minimal setup level setting as shown in the CP purple pic. However keep in mind the GL2 tends to be less contrasty to begin with and a step or two down in setup level may not cause a drastic color shift and may possibly improve the color you are looking for. Only using the cam in the real world with human faces and such will tell, which so far I have not done with a setup level lowered a few clicks. It would be interesting to see the result. Thanks for the additional info. Perhaps I should include shots where only the color gain was adjusted and not the setup level, as these shots are also just as important for folks to scrutinize, and the color intensity of these shots was also quite strong. Perhaps later tonite I will post more shots without setup level adjustments.

November 7th, 2002, 05:16 AM	#5
Graham Bernard Old Boot Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: London UK Posts: 3,633	Buddy, I look forward to your.... "Perhaps later tonite I will post more shots without setup level adjustments." G

November 7th, 2002, 06:24 AM	#6
Bill Hardy Major Player Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 205	You may be also interested to know that I will try to get a shot from my Sony F-55 2.1 MP digital camera to give you hopefully a closer representation of what the ribbon colors should really look like.

November 7th, 2002, 07:49 AM	#7
Graham Bernard Old Boot Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: London UK Posts: 3,633	Outstanding! I've tried to download some of your movies (?), but to date not been able to. I live in Lodon UK - do you think the piece of "string" is too far for such deliveries? - Seriously, I've got QT but don't seem to be able to get them -humfff!!! Can you do an istsy bitsy version somehow? Keep up the excellent work. Grazie

November 7th, 2002, 06:06 PM	#8
Bill Hardy Major Player Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 205	The three additional pics are now posted. Notice with color gain on full blast the GL2 purple ribbon's saturation even surpasses the digital cam photo. The GL2's ribbon colors definitely seem a closer match than the GL1 as far as the digital photo is concerned. None of the cams were white balanced and all were on auto, with CP color gain maxed on the GL2. I think white balancing may have made an improvement on the GL1, but not enough to match the GL2's all around color quality and saturation. But be aware that I am slightly color blind. If anyone see's something I don't let me know. This test does not prove the GL2 is capable of warmer video, but a broader quality is evident in my opinion, thanks to the GL2's new CP controls.

November 7th, 2002, 07:13 PM	#9
Barry Goyette Trustee Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: San Luis Obispo CA Posts: 1,195	Bill I think that your tests help confirm that the gl2 produces a fairly accurate spectrum, although, as we see here, and in my tests earlier, yellow is a color it doesn't do well. I'm a bit suspicious of the gl1's color balance...you might, as you said, want to do a custom white balance on it to see if the warmish color cast doesn't disappear (I got nailed on this one with the xl1s comparison awhile back). I've never noticed my gl1 to be overly warm like this. Thanks for your ideas on using the setup to control saturation. Barry

November 7th, 2002, 08:07 PM	#10
Bill Hardy Major Player Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 205	Quite right Barry; A frame of the color balanced GL1 is now posted. I will also color balance the GL2 to see if there is any difference. Color balanced GL2 is posted and yellow is definitely more intense than the white balanced GL1. Of course color gain is maxed in the GL2. I would like to take some outdoor shots with the GL2 soon, perhaps this weekend with some increased color gain because of this test; very curious as to how the video will look. Of course full blast on the color gain would be a bad idea, but I will look into an increased color gain, since it seems the gl1 has more color than the gl2 by default, especially yellow.