GL2 - Bright Red Faces

[Steve Anderson]

Don’t know if I have a problem or not hoping you can help. I have a brand new GL2 I bought from Zotz digital (recommended board sponsor) the image is over saturated toward red. The flesh tones are bright red in either the green box mode or in any P mode settings I have carefully checked white balance manually and also used auto white balance same results – red faces not just slightly red or leaning towars red - they are very red. The only way I can achieve decent flesh tones is to use “custom preset” shift color phase toward green - 4 clicks and turn down color gain -5 clicks. I have read about others having to make minor adjustments with “CP” but only 1 or 2 clicks + or – are enough. Should I send the camera in for calibration or just live with it? I’m worried I might have a weak green CCD in the camera is that possible?
Also I believe this problem eliminates use of green box mode since custom preset can not be used unless of course you don’t mind bright red faces.
Thanks for your input,
Steve

[Mike Donley]

My custom preset is toward green, far to the left of center. I don't know how many clicks because my camera is at home. I'd say it is 2/3 of the way to the left of center. I do this to better match the colors of my GL1's.

[Rob Lohman]

Steve: if you just bought the camera I would return it to get
another one. This sounds too extreme!

[Steve Anderson]

Mike:
How are the flesh tones in your "Green Box" mode? Are they shifted toward red or look normal on a good monitor or TV?

Rob:
I work for a school district and we have several GL2's none of them have exibited this sort of problem I described here - flesh tone are more neutral if anything. I would really like to use the "Green Box" mode at times. My wife and others in the family could use this and somtimes I just want to point and shoot. So I called Brian @ Zotz he said to send it back if they verify the problem will send me a new camera. So I went ahead sent the camera back. I'll let you all know what's happens.

Thanks for your input greatly appreciated.
Steve

[Mike Donley]

Steve,
The faces for the GL2 look normal on several JVC monitors. They match the images of faces for my GL1's.

I am curious to find out the outcome of sending the camera in. Maybe my camera is not right either. I just assumed that a GL2 might normally be different in color and saturation from a GL1, and so adjusted it until it matche.

Mike Donley

[Steve Anderson]

Mike,
I wouln't get to worried it's good your not having any color phase shifts or to much color gain in green box mode. My cameras flesh tones are way to red and over sturated in this mode Everybody looks like they have an extreem case of high blood presure or are very angry on my Sony wega and the other two monitors I have that produce normal color and flesh tones with other sources. At first (two weeks ago) my camera seemed OK only slightly off I hope I'm not seeing things but the problem gardually worsened over the last 7 or 8 days.

I assume your are satisfied with the GL1's color output - flesh tones, color saturation ect. and you want both cameras to match that makes good sence.
However I'm curious to know what the flesh tones look like in Program mode with your custom presets turned off on the GL2 - with proper white balance do flesh tones look normal on your JVC monitors? Also when you do use the custom preset do you have to turn down the golor gain at all to get normal flesh tones?

My camera should arrive at Zotz this Friday I should know what's going to happen early next week I'll post the results here.

Thanks,
Steve

[Mike Donley]

Using Auto program mode and manual white balance, the flesh tones are too red if I do not turn custom preset on. And yes, I do turn down the saturation. I use the custom preset to move the color towards green and to turn down the saturation. If I turn off the custom preset, it looks like there is a red cast to the air in a sanctuary during a wedding. It appears to be more of a problem in a sancturary that has low lighting.

I know that my settings are only ballpark. But the end result looks good when compared to the footage from my GL1s. It is easier to adjust the GL2 to match the GL1s, probably impossible to do it the other way around. All three of my JVC monitors are slightly different in color. They are $329 monitors, so they are not really professional grade. I make the comparisons on just one of the monitors, the monitor connected to my editor. If I do any color adjustment in post, I do either while recording into the editor, or in the editor instelf. So all adjustments are made while looking at the one monitor.

Mike Donley

[Steve Anderson]

I heard from Brian and Jason at Zotz today they verified the camera does have a problem and have already shipped a replacement it should arrive early next week. Acutally they were somewhat surpried how far off it was. I am so thankfull I listened to the pros here and purchsed from a board sponsor Zots was very professional can't say enough about the good service - they are excellent.

Mike:
If you have some buddies or a camera shop near by with GL2's may want to compare your output to thiers see how they match up under different lighting conditions with the same camera settings. This was my unscientific approach it would be good to check this before your warranty expires. However the GL2's in our school district tend to shift ever so slightly towards red in low light but nothing drastic. Also they have not experienced the transport or zoom problems reorted on this board. Three of the cameras are 2 years old but all the cameras we have received hard student use - maybe we have been fortunate I don’t know. Bottom line is your getting good results with your GL2 using the CP settings.

Thanks agian for your input take care,
Steve

[Mike Donley]

Glad to hear you will have a happy outcome.

I network with another videographer is my area who has a GL2. I'll take your advice and compare images with his GL2 before my warranty expires.

Thanks!

[Steve Anderson]

Received 2nd GL2 from Zotz nice camera except I’m having trouble with flesh tones. All colors look crisp and nicely saturated way better that the 1st GL2 however the 2nd GL2 seems to exaggerate flesh tones to a reddish pink especially the facial tones so everyone appears to have an extreme case of high blood pressure. I have played with custom presets – turning color gain down 4 or 5 clicks helps but then you lose that nicely saturated effect. Also moving color phase toward green helps but this also affects the overall picture shifting everything towards green to achieve acceptable facial tones. Do all GL2’s suffer from this problem? I’m hoping some of you more experience folks have a similar scenario with your GL2 and wouldn’t mind sharing something more effective than playing with the custom presets to correct this?
I did proper white balance in all cases except green box mode of course and tried the 2nd GL2 in a number of different lighting situations. As mentioned before I have already returned one GL2 it had a weak green CCD so color was way off this is the second GL2. I'm shooting weddings and most brides won't like the exaggerated reddish - pink.
Not sure what to do here I’m thinking returning it and paying the extra cash for a Sony VX2100 I'd like to avoid that.
Thanks for any help,
Steve

[Ken Tanaka]

Steve,
Canon video cameras do love the warmer tones. Sony's love the cooler blue look. Many people, but certainly not all, tend to prefer Canon's warmer flesh tones over Sony's "look".

But I'd suggest that you just use the camera that you feel best suits the look you want. Assuming you've viewed your footage on a good-quality, well-calibrated television monitor (not just on-camera or on your computer screen) it sounds like you've explored every adjustment avenue available.

[Rob Lohman]

Can you put up a frame showing this effect somewhere?

[Rob Lohman]

I've merged your two threads Steve, no need to keep two of 'em.

[Steve Anderson]

Rob,

Maybe I’ve given the wrong impression here I am getting good video from this 2nd GL2 and maybe I’m a little to fussy and overreacting. I can adjust the color gain down in the custom presets to avoid this effect it does de-saturate the over all color more than I like but there’s always trade offs.

Also after Ken’s (love the warmer tones) comments above I suppose this is common for most GL2 users to make adjustments. I have hooked up to several different good quality monitors don’t trust the EVF and LCD panel that much. The school district I work for has some 2yr old GL2’s they have this effect but not quite so exaggerated meaning we don’t have to depend on custom presets as much but then it’s two years down the road and every camera is slightly different I suppose.

Basically I was just wondering if you folks with more experience have discovered ways to minimize this "love the warmer tones" effect a little, maybe a filter or some white balance trick. Low light and the new types of florescent lighting seem to be a challenge at times I have to turn CP color gain way down. I’m experimenting – taking notes – getting to know this GL2 but I do appreciate your input. I will try to post this effect.

Thanks,

Steve

[Rob Lohman]

I know this is your 2nd and the problem is virtually gone, but you
still find it too red. So that's why I thought it was better to keep
everything together. Doesn't matter much.

The easiest ways to shift the color:

- white balance
- color shift in the camera
- color correction in post

Good luck with your tests!