Film Mode at DVinfo.net

Tim Agnew · January 26th, 2005, 11:38 AM

I'm getting ready to shoot a new production and am very new to the GL2. The production will be a rehabilitation DVD and I was wondering if I should shoot it in Film mode. Does anyone have an comments on the best mode to shoot a 45 min production in? Thanks in advance

Ken Tanaka · January 26th, 2005, 12:19 PM

Hello Tim,
The actual term is "frame mode". This is Canon's version of a type of synthetic progressive scan capture. A Search, such as this, will turn up an enormous amount of information and opinions on its use.

Whether or not it's best for your production is more a matter of the nature of the content. As part of "getting ready to" you should shoot some test footage and view it on a television to determine which mode is most appropriate.

Dave Ferdinand · January 26th, 2005, 03:01 PM

As Tims said there are already several topics on this.

I prefer shooting in Frame Mode because Premiere doesn't seem to do a great job in deinterlacing 60i.

However if you have a better package that makes it look just as good, just shoot in 60i and change it to 30p later as needed.

Tim Agnew · January 26th, 2005, 06:10 PM

Thanks- but what is 60i and 30p?

Graham Bernard · January 27th, 2005, 05:49 AM

Yeah .. nasty eh?

Ok ... I think I'll get this correct .. I'm sure Ken and others will smack me if I get it wrong .. but here goes . . .

Lets take old movie film as a starting point. That consisted of a very VERY long strip of transparent material with separate Frames one after the other. Pass these through a movie project and as the frames reach their proper speed the separate frames appear as a continous stream of moving pictures. So they progress from one frame to another - PROGRESSIVE - Great! Our brains don't see the join above 24 FRAMES PER SECOND, so the optimum rate is this magical number 24f.p.s. OR .. .tarah! . . . 24p . . kool eh?

Ok, now we get to television and things get a bit more copmplex and each frame is made up of 2 separate regions or FIELDS. These fields are "strips" are themselves and designated the terms as being UPPER field and LOWER field. These two fields are transmitted as two separate streams and are then knitted back together as a continous coherent moving picure - GREAT! So in PAL land we get 50 fields per second OR - putting the 2 interlaced fields back together we get back to the slighlty more magical number of 25fps, for our brains to see continous motion.

However, in NTSC-land you have 60i and 30p - but the theory is the same. I gave the PAL version first because you can see that PAL is nearer to the whole film look than the NTSC 60i or 30p. Being PAL here in UK we are fortunate in having a nearly film look already. Getting to that progressive scan looi that Ken says has become hugely sought after .. this I find weird .. ovcer the years we have all gone through many hoops to get clean, sharp and anything but the best look from DV work - then we now start to wanting to get this ... well 24p look .. . interesting! So, once shot you are mostly "stuck" with what "look" you've shot - you film in the Canon Film mode - that's it! You can't then "correct" to the best version of the shot footage. So the idea here is to therefore shoot in the best quality and THEN apply a "look" to the footage.

There are many s/w products out there to give many looks. I use Sony VEGAS and I can create looks for my videos. BUT I need the footage as clean and crisp as I can manage. So, I don't go near Film look. However, these film looks, applied in post production, CAN take humoungouos amounts of time in rendering. So that's why many people - quite rightly - want to save time and shoot in a particular look.

Grazie

January 26th, 2005, 11:38 AM	#1
Tim Agnew Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Sarasota Posts: 64	Film Mode I'm getting ready to shoot a new production and am very new to the GL2. The production will be a rehabilitation DVD and I was wondering if I should shoot it in Film mode. Does anyone have an comments on the best mode to shoot a 45 min production in? Thanks in advance

January 26th, 2005, 12:19 PM	#2
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	Hello Tim, The actual term is "frame mode". This is Canon's version of a type of synthetic progressive scan capture. A Search, such as this, will turn up an enormous amount of information and opinions on its use. Whether or not it's best for your production is more a matter of the nature of the content. As part of "getting ready to" you should shoot some test footage and view it on a television to determine which mode is most appropriate. __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

January 26th, 2005, 03:01 PM	#3
Dave Ferdinand Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 359	As Tims said there are already several topics on this. I prefer shooting in Frame Mode because Premiere doesn't seem to do a great job in deinterlacing 60i. However if you have a better package that makes it look just as good, just shoot in 60i and change it to 30p later as needed.

January 26th, 2005, 06:10 PM	#4
Tim Agnew Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Sarasota Posts: 64	Thanks- but what is 60i and 30p?

January 27th, 2005, 05:49 AM	#5
Graham Bernard Old Boot Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: London UK Posts: 3,633	Yeah .. nasty eh? Ok ... I think I'll get this correct .. I'm sure Ken and others will smack me if I get it wrong .. but here goes . . . Lets take old movie film as a starting point. That consisted of a very VERY long strip of transparent material with separate Frames one after the other. Pass these through a movie project and as the frames reach their proper speed the separate frames appear as a continous stream of moving pictures. So they progress from one frame to another - PROGRESSIVE - Great! Our brains don't see the join above 24 FRAMES PER SECOND, so the optimum rate is this magical number 24f.p.s. OR .. .tarah! . . . 24p . . kool eh? Ok, now we get to television and things get a bit more copmplex and each frame is made up of 2 separate regions or FIELDS. These fields are "strips" are themselves and designated the terms as being UPPER field and LOWER field. These two fields are transmitted as two separate streams and are then knitted back together as a continous coherent moving picure - GREAT! So in PAL land we get 50 fields per second OR - putting the 2 interlaced fields back together we get back to the slighlty more magical number of 25fps, for our brains to see continous motion. However, in NTSC-land you have 60i and 30p - but the theory is the same. I gave the PAL version first because you can see that PAL is nearer to the whole film look than the NTSC 60i or 30p. Being PAL here in UK we are fortunate in having a nearly film look already. Getting to that progressive scan looi that Ken says has become hugely sought after .. this I find weird .. ovcer the years we have all gone through many hoops to get clean, sharp and anything but the best look from DV work - then we now start to wanting to get this ... well 24p look .. . interesting! So, once shot you are mostly "stuck" with what "look" you've shot - you film in the Canon Film mode - that's it! You can't then "correct" to the best version of the shot footage. So the idea here is to therefore shoot in the best quality and THEN apply a "look" to the footage. There are many s/w products out there to give many looks. I use Sony VEGAS and I can create looks for my videos. BUT I need the footage as clean and crisp as I can manage. So, I don't go near Film look. However, these film looks, applied in post production, CAN take humoungouos amounts of time in rendering. So that's why many people - quite rightly - want to save time and shoot in a particular look. Grazie