MA300 XLR microphone adapter

Michael Botkin · December 3rd, 2003, 02:15 PM

One more thing while I'm talking about the ME66, I've used it for a year now with outstanding results, but can someone explain the switch on the actual mic that looks like --\ it's right by the power button, i'm guessing it's some sort of attenuator, but when would be the best time to use it or keep it off? Thanks,

Mike

Michael Botkin · December 3rd, 2003, 02:17 PM

Jesus, I meant the K66 bass roll-off filter, anyone use it? Sorry,

Mike

Graham Bernard · December 3rd, 2003, 04:23 PM

Yes, I created, "...XLR Y cable from the Mic to both L and R inputs". This was to ensure a colleague of mine had "both" channels on his AVIO edit system. He wouldn't copy one channel to both in post . . hey, sometimes yer have to go with the flow ;-)

Okay - I'm really trying hard to get my head around what you said next,"Could you use your manual sound, and set the R to a higher gain and the L for lower in case of a sudden loud noise that may clip on tape? " - I'd be thinking that adjusting either or both would only give you a higher or lower audio on THAT channel. Loud bangs or distorts would be captured on either one of the channels. In which case wouldn't you be back to square one? - I'm really having a problem with this concept . . . .

As for the Bass roll off, I've kept it on all the time. Nothing logical about my approach. Oh, there was a nice little graphical representation of the Bass Roll-off effect somewhere. I believe it was with my Senni66 kit when I got it. You could do a search on the Senni Site to get some info . . In the meantime could you please explain a bit more fully your ideas anout the Y split to both channels . . it's doing my brain in!

Hope some of this is helpful,

Grazie

Ken Tanaka · December 3rd, 2003, 04:27 PM

The bass roll-off switch is common to many pro microphones. Essentially, it helps to filter-out low-frequency rumble.

Try changing the switch while recording near a motor or some other low-freq noise source to understand the effect.

Michael Botkin · December 4th, 2003, 05:14 PM

Thanks for the bass roll off info, I've never had it on. I read somewhere that'd it'd be a good idea to y split the XLR cables so that you could set the ideal level of sound for example the left channel. Now for the right channel, set the gain lower but so the sound is still clean. That way, if an unexpected LOUD noise comes about and you dont' have time to ride the levels, the Right channel would have still picked up the clear LOUD noise w/o clipping on the tape. Basically, it acts as a back up.

Mike

Rob Wilson · December 4th, 2003, 05:33 PM

Unless you are experiencing problems w low freq rumble or noise, it's best to leave the switch off. Why would you want to limit the range of the mic you spent big bucks for? Some folks use it when trying to cut down wind noise and it does help some but comes no where near a good wind screen.

Diane Bogosian · December 9th, 2003, 05:59 PM

I also read (In Real World Video) that when recording mono, you can Y split and set one channel at 0db and the other at -20db. So you get your optimal audio at 0 db BUT, if something happens to send that optimal over the edge and ruins the audio (that you normally would be capturing mono on just one channel), the -20 db channel acts as a back up, to be edited in at the appropriate spot in post.

If this is a BAD idea, I'd also like to hear from those who know...

Jack Robertson · December 10th, 2003, 04:28 AM

Using a Y cable from one mic into two channels and with one channel set higher than the other is a great way to record sound if you are not able to ride levels or don't have a person dedicated to mixing the sound.

However, if the "loud" peak is louder than the mic's maximum db range than you will get distortion on tape regardless of how low you have turned the level down, especially with electret mics like the sennheiser K6. On the other hand, most dynamic mics on average have a much higher maximum db range and perhaps you should be using two mics for the purpose of recording explosive material. I personally use the sennheiser e835, which is very rugged and for a dynamic mic has a great frequency response.

Bass roll off is good if recording in high wind environment, but you still have to use a windshield other wise it will not do much in that regard. Do some tests like Ken says to see what difference it does make... and do listen to the material on a system that can produce good bass... u might be surprised at how much different the characteristis of the mic changes with the bass roll-off on and off.

Cheers,
Jack

Graham Bernard · December 10th, 2003, 04:56 AM

. . I really think I missing the point here . . . As the output, whatever that maybe, going basically into 2 channesl give the "same". How does one manage this in post . . . I'm obviously missing a fatal flaw in my awarenesses here? . . Somebody put me out of my misery . . .

Grazie

Jack Robertson · December 10th, 2003, 05:05 AM

If you have the one mic split via a Y cable into two channels and one is set lower than the other then in post you should only really use the one track, either the left or the right. If the left is set to a normal level and there is a distortion in one part of the recording, there is a good chance that the right track will not be distorted at that point as it has been recorded lower.

So in that case you would have to mix from one to the other (ie left to right and then back again to take out the distoted part. Obviously you have to mix the sound into mono during the edit or afterwards so that you dont end up with sound in just the left or right channels.

Hope this clears it up.
Jack

Graham Bernard · December 10th, 2003, 05:38 AM

Thanks Jack. I think I was confusing the option to use mic att, which I have used to great avail, saved me and the shoot on a number of occasions. I was thinking that maybe one could mic att just one, either or both channels separately. This is where I was confusing myself. So all you are saying is that one would physically "reduce" one channel, THEN in post separate the 2 channels and Pick 'n Mix from either - yeah?

The last part of what you say about the need to Pan the mono I understood. I do this in Vegas all the time now.

So, no separate XM2 mic att for each channel, just a reduction in the audio of each channel - got it!

Not in misery anymore.

Grazie

Jack Robertson · December 10th, 2003, 05:54 AM

Yes that's exactly right Graham.

One more note; mic attenuation is good for most things, but the original poster Michael mentioned recording explosive material and that IMO would still be too loud for mic attenuation.

I was recording a band once and although I was recording the sound onto minidisc from the mixer, my camera's sound was very distorted even after using mic att. and turning down the volume a lot. I was fairly close to the speakers and like I mentioned in my prebious post, if the sound pressure level goes over the mic's maximum it will distort no matter what.

Anyway, Im glad you now know what I was saying before.

Cheers,
Jack

Patrick MCMurray · January 3rd, 2004, 02:36 PM

Graham, you let A FRIEND use one of those? I had the bad luck of having to rely on that wretched machine in an under budgeted high school video class. It is by far the WORST machine i have ever used! An old iMac with iMovie is 100X the machine at half the price! But, hey... thats just me on a rant.

Graham Bernard · January 3rd, 2004, 05:30 PM

"Graham, you let A FRIEND use one of those? " - . . er no! He had it a long long time before I ever knew him. And, just for the record he has produced some remarkable wedding videos. PLUS he is a very good cameraman and FRIEND! - He just wanted the single track spread to 2 tracks . . .

Happy New YEar . . Grazie

Jay Staya · February 27th, 2004, 04:50 PM

I just had a thought, don't know if this is possible, but what about building a phantom supply into the ma300 adaptor? has anyone tried this?

December 3rd, 2003, 02:15 PM	#106
Michael Botkin Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Cary, NC Posts: 70	One more thing while I'm talking about the ME66, I've used it for a year now with outstanding results, but can someone explain the switch on the actual mic that looks like --\ it's right by the power button, i'm guessing it's some sort of attenuator, but when would be the best time to use it or keep it off? Thanks, Mike __________________ Check out media and photographs at the brand new: http://www.coalmarch.com

December 3rd, 2003, 02:17 PM	#107
Michael Botkin Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Cary, NC Posts: 70	Jesus, I meant the K66 bass roll-off filter, anyone use it? Sorry, Mike __________________ Check out media and photographs at the brand new: http://www.coalmarch.com

December 3rd, 2003, 04:27 PM	#109
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	The bass roll-off switch is common to many pro microphones. Essentially, it helps to filter-out low-frequency rumble. Try changing the switch while recording near a motor or some other low-freq noise source to understand the effect. __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

December 4th, 2003, 05:14 PM	#110
Michael Botkin Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Cary, NC Posts: 70	Thanks for the bass roll off info, I've never had it on. I read somewhere that'd it'd be a good idea to y split the XLR cables so that you could set the ideal level of sound for example the left channel. Now for the right channel, set the gain lower but so the sound is still clean. That way, if an unexpected LOUD noise comes about and you dont' have time to ride the levels, the Right channel would have still picked up the clear LOUD noise w/o clipping on the tape. Basically, it acts as a back up. Mike __________________ Check out media and photographs at the brand new: http://www.coalmarch.com

December 10th, 2003, 04:56 AM	#114
Graham Bernard Old Boot Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: London UK Posts: 3,633	. . .erm, I don't get this one at all . . . . . . I really think I missing the point here . . . As the output, whatever that maybe, going basically into 2 channesl give the "same". How does one manage this in post . . . I'm obviously missing a fatal flaw in my awarenesses here? . . Somebody put me out of my misery . . . Grazie

December 3rd, 2003, 04:23 PM	#108
Graham Bernard Old Boot Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: London UK Posts: 3,633	Yes, I created, "...XLR Y cable from the Mic to both L and R inputs". This was to ensure a colleague of mine had "both" channels on his AVIO edit system. He wouldn't copy one channel to both in post . . hey, sometimes yer have to go with the flow ;-) Okay - I'm really trying hard to get my head around what you said next,"Could you use your manual sound, and set the R to a higher gain and the L for lower in case of a sudden loud noise that may clip on tape? " - I'd be thinking that adjusting either or both would only give you a higher or lower audio on THAT channel. Loud bangs or distorts would be captured on either one of the channels. In which case wouldn't you be back to square one? - I'm really having a problem with this concept . . . . As for the Bass roll off, I've kept it on all the time. Nothing logical about my approach. Oh, there was a nice little graphical representation of the Bass Roll-off effect somewhere. I believe it was with my Senni66 kit when I got it. You could do a search on the Senni Site to get some info . . In the meantime could you please explain a bit more fully your ideas anout the Y split to both channels . . it's doing my brain in! Hope some of this is helpful, Grazie

December 4th, 2003, 05:33 PM	#111
Rob Wilson Major Player Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Flagstaff, AZ Posts: 473	Unless you are experiencing problems w low freq rumble or noise, it's best to leave the switch off. Why would you want to limit the range of the mic you spent big bucks for? Some folks use it when trying to cut down wind noise and it does help some but comes no where near a good wind screen.

December 9th, 2003, 05:59 PM	#112
Diane Bogosian Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 55	I also read (In Real World Video) that when recording mono, you can Y split and set one channel at 0db and the other at -20db. So you get your optimal audio at 0 db BUT, if something happens to send that optimal over the edge and ruins the audio (that you normally would be capturing mono on just one channel), the -20 db channel acts as a back up, to be edited in at the appropriate spot in post. If this is a BAD idea, I'd also like to hear from those who know...

December 10th, 2003, 04:28 AM	#113
Jack Robertson Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 125	Using a Y cable from one mic into two channels and with one channel set higher than the other is a great way to record sound if you are not able to ride levels or don't have a person dedicated to mixing the sound. However, if the "loud" peak is louder than the mic's maximum db range than you will get distortion on tape regardless of how low you have turned the level down, especially with electret mics like the sennheiser K6. On the other hand, most dynamic mics on average have a much higher maximum db range and perhaps you should be using two mics for the purpose of recording explosive material. I personally use the sennheiser e835, which is very rugged and for a dynamic mic has a great frequency response. Bass roll off is good if recording in high wind environment, but you still have to use a windshield other wise it will not do much in that regard. Do some tests like Ken says to see what difference it does make... and do listen to the material on a system that can produce good bass... u might be surprised at how much different the characteristis of the mic changes with the bass roll-off on and off. Cheers, Jack

December 10th, 2003, 05:05 AM	#115
Jack Robertson Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 125	If you have the one mic split via a Y cable into two channels and one is set lower than the other then in post you should only really use the one track, either the left or the right. If the left is set to a normal level and there is a distortion in one part of the recording, there is a good chance that the right track will not be distorted at that point as it has been recorded lower. So in that case you would have to mix from one to the other (ie left to right and then back again to take out the distoted part. Obviously you have to mix the sound into mono during the edit or afterwards so that you dont end up with sound in just the left or right channels. Hope this clears it up. Jack

December 10th, 2003, 05:38 AM	#116
Graham Bernard Old Boot Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: London UK Posts: 3,633	Ah - Clear as a Bell! Thanks Jack. I think I was confusing the option to use mic att, which I have used to great avail, saved me and the shoot on a number of occasions. I was thinking that maybe one could mic att just one, either or both channels separately. This is where I was confusing myself. So all you are saying is that one would physically "reduce" one channel, THEN in post separate the 2 channels and Pick 'n Mix from either - yeah? The last part of what you say about the need to Pan the mono I understood. I do this in Vegas all the time now. So, no separate XM2 mic att for each channel, just a reduction in the audio of each channel - got it! Not in misery anymore. Grazie

December 10th, 2003, 05:54 AM	#117
Jack Robertson Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 125	Yes that's exactly right Graham. One more note; mic attenuation is good for most things, but the original poster Michael mentioned recording explosive material and that IMO would still be too loud for mic attenuation. I was recording a band once and although I was recording the sound onto minidisc from the mixer, my camera's sound was very distorted even after using mic att. and turning down the volume a lot. I was fairly close to the speakers and like I mentioned in my prebious post, if the sound pressure level goes over the mic's maximum it will distort no matter what. Anyway, Im glad you now know what I was saying before. Cheers, Jack

January 3rd, 2004, 02:36 PM	#118
Patrick MCMurray Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Sacramento CA Posts: 66	AVIO? Graham, you let A FRIEND use one of those? I had the bad luck of having to rely on that wretched machine in an under budgeted high school video class. It is by far the WORST machine i have ever used! An old iMac with iMovie is 100X the machine at half the price! But, hey... thats just me on a rant. __________________ Remember, Tuesdays are Soylent Green days!

January 3rd, 2004, 05:30 PM	#119
Graham Bernard Old Boot Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: London UK Posts: 3,633	"Graham, you let A FRIEND use one of those? " - . . er no! He had it a long long time before I ever knew him. And, just for the record he has produced some remarkable wedding videos. PLUS he is a very good cameraman and FRIEND! - He just wanted the single track spread to 2 tracks . . . Happy New YEar . . Grazie

February 27th, 2004, 04:50 PM	#120
Jay Staya New Boot Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 13	Anyone thought of building a circuit for the ma300 I just had a thought, don't know if this is possible, but what about building a phantom supply into the ma300 adaptor? has anyone tried this?