GL2 plunge...size problem

I've ALMOST made my plunge into GL2 when I checked out the
dimensions of this beast and realized that my wife will not like
it at all. I was hugely disappointed since I had my mind well
made up that I'll love the GL2. So, now, I need your help. What
is a good camcorder that is about half the size of a GL2 but
shoots almost as well with good video quality, etc.

I just need a few suggestions for me to get started on another
round of research.

Please throw in a bone or two for me, will you? Some
brand/models will be a great start.

My requirements:
1. Size - at least half the size of GL2
2. Quality - very important to me...I may even consider getting
an anamorphic lens for it.
3. Price possibly below $2000.

What I don't care:
1. Using the camcorder to take images since I have a dedicated
Nikon Coolpix 995 which takes excellent pictures.

Thanks,
MS

[Jeff Donald]

Trying to pick one camera to make two people happy is pretty tough (impossible?). If two cameras are out of the question then I would ask who is the primary video user and try to match the features to suit that user. If your the principle user and you buy a small camera to make your wife happy will you still be happy with the lower quality video it produces? Match the needs to the user. With that in mind, I would look at the Sonys. I feel they have the best small 3 chip cameras on the market now. But if you were attracted to the GL2 because of its picture quality, you'll be disapointed by the smaller cameras picture .

Jeff

[Ken Tanaka]

I understand your quandry.

I don't have a hard make/model recommendation for you, Michael. But I do offer some thoughts. If your heart tells you that you will eventually find a way to buy a GL2, consider selecting a Canon model now. Reason: footage from same-brand cameras tends to be easier to match when editing it together. Canon has several small-size models from which to choose. (http://canondv.com/) Your biggest decision will be whether to get an upright design or a horizontal.

MY solution was to give my wife one of Canon's ZR models which, by the way, are excellent for casual and family shooting. Very comfortable to hold and use, sturdy, easy to carry in a bag or waist pack, Firewire in/out and less than half the size of a GL2. In fact, I liked hers so much I got one for myself!

[Frank Granovski]

www.dvfreak.com/pana_mx5.htm

[Don Donatello]

the panasonic EZ 50 is the smallest 3 chip ..lens has 37mm threads. century makes a 37mm thread 16x9 anamorphic ... st price is around 1400-1650 ...

[Keith Luken]

I'm rather new to this, but my 2 cents is;
Either go the 2 camera route, I have a GL2 and ZR45, I use the ZR45 was casual shooting and as as the VCR for importing any of my DV into my computer, thus saving wear on the GL2.
If the 2 camera route is not an option then the Sonys would be my choice. Until I decidied on the GL2 I was headed for a Sony 950 3 CCD or if I was going to stay 1 CCD then the TRV 27 or 50. I think the Sony smaller cams are better than the Canons but typically run a few more $$$. The Canon advantage is their optical Zoom (ZR45 = 18x, ZR50 =22x). Maybe you could look at the Canon Optura 100MC or 200MC, I hear they have excellent pic quality, but only 10x zoom.

Thanks Frank, I research more into the Panasonic MX5000 and
bought it (my friend who is a flight attendent visiting Japan
got it for me for a mere $1200 !!!). I have a small learning
curve to go through since everything is in Japanese but it
doesn't seem that hard since there is an English version
of the manual out there which I'm printing right now.

WOW! 3 megapixel camera on a camcorder. I can't wait to
lay my greedy hands on it.

- MS

Jeff Donald said "...I would look at the Sonys. I feel they have the best small 3 chip cameras on the market now. But if you were attracted to the GL2 because of its picture quality, you'll be disapointed by the smaller cameras picture ."

Have you tested the TRV950, Jeff? That Sony 3-chip's picture is every bit as sharp as the GL2's, if not a touch more, and somewhat freer of artifacts. In truth, the 2 pictures are nearly interchangeable, except the GL2 will see down in lower light than the 950. The only small Sony 3-chip camera that would disappoint compared to the GL2 would be the previous model TRV900, now discontinued and going on 5yrs old - that's about 2 generations in DV years...

The GL2 is a very nice camera, and lightweight for it's size. But it has very nearly the same shape and bulk as the VX2000, which Does attract attention in the sea of palmcams out there.

The MX5000 is very nearly the same size as the TRV950 (it's a little trimmer in width, but the same length when the Sony's lens hood isn't counted. -The MX5000 has no hood.), but with a much lower resolution viewfinder than the 950. These two cameras have similar capabilities, but the smaller chip size of the MX5000 (1/6" vs Sony's 1/4.7") leaves the MX5000 running out of light for a good picture noticeably sooner than the Sony. (try saying That 3 times fast-)

The 950 is not exactly a subminiature by today's standards of small camcorder, but it delivers about as good a picture as can be had in miniDV right now, and in a smaller unassuming form.

Here's an unbiased comparison of all 3, plus vx2000: http://www4.big.or.jp/%7Ea_haru/temp020829/0208_3CCD.html

[Jeff Donald]

Hi psurfer1,

Yes, I have tried the Sony 950 and I stand by my comments. Many posters here feel the same. They went into the store biased towards the Sony, yet bought the GL2 (because of the better picture) after comparing the cameras. I don't feel your web site (reference) is unbiased either. If you can provide a translation, I might feel different. However, I've been to that site before and some of the images they use for comparison are different (different framing, lighting, shadows, angle of view). I've seen them post images for comparison taken at different times of the day (outdoor shadows in different parts of frame). I can not draw a valid conclusion from that type of information.

No two people are going to see images exactly the same. To your eye and for your needs the 950 is the better camera. To my eye and for my needs, I would choose the GL2, based on my hands on comparisons. Size is not a very important factor for me. However, if size was the most important factor, I would buy the Sony 950. I feel it is the best small 3 chip camera on the market, at this time.

Jeff

[Jason Bagby]

are we talking about the 5 inch by 6 inch by 11 inch gl2 as being too big? jesus. what do you want, a wristwatch camera? are you from the future? your wife can probably fit the gl2 in her purse. even the ez50 only shaves off like 10% of the size, and as an added bonus it has the smallest ccd's i've ever heard of. . .1/6" right? (" is the symbol for inches, ' is the symbol for feet. . . are you sure you didn't misread the gl2 dimensions?)
or if you want overpriced bluetooth-ability, go with the trv950, and its 1/4.6" chips, which pry don't do much more than make calculating object size that much harder.
go back in time 5 years and you'll see that cameras comparable to the gl2 were gigantic and had to be made of magnesium alloy to support their own weight.
good luck holding your palmcorder still long enough to get a 7 second clip. . . as it sounds like the idea of a tripod, and their mamoth size, won't sit too well with your better half.
concessions have to be made. if you are really interested in good image acquisition, i think you are going to have to ditch the wifey.
just kidding.
Jason.

[Chris Hurd]

Hi Jason,

I can appreciate that fact that your post is pretty much tongue-in-cheek, but I think it's important to understand that for many people, "size is an issue" and they have what they perceive to be a legitimate need for the smallest camcorder available. We all need to recognize and respect this as much as we do all the big iron.

Man, I can't tell you how many people I've talked to at tradeshows who feel the VX2000 and GL2 are far too big for their needs. I've talked to some folks who want the Elura 40MC to be smaller than it already is. There's a fairly large market for tiny cameras, so let's acknowledge and respect that. The mantra should be, "right tool for the right job," along with "different strokes for different folks."

Okay, two cliches in one post, but that's pretty much what Jeff was getting at and I agree with him 100%. Thanks,

[Jason Bagby]

No disrespect intended, Jeff.
and of course i don't want to alienate anyone, but the size and calibur of todays dv acquisition tools are nothing less than unbelievable to me and i feel they are owed a certian amount of appreciation. . .
if a guy walked into a car dealership and asked for something as fast as a corvette, but with the price of a yugo, and with a 4 cylinder engine, the salesman would only keep from laughing for fear of losing his job.
they just don't make them. . . yet.
concessions must be made- although one's wife surely shoudln't be one of them.

[Jason Bagby]

okay, and maybe i'm a little defensive of my gl1. i love her so.

[Chris Hurd]

Umm, well Jason, I think the Hyundai Tiburon comes pretty close to that actually.

;-)

[Craig Peer]

Size does matter, as I shoot ( for the most part ) technical mountain climbing videos. So I went to the extreme and replaced the 3 original Eluras I used as climbing cams with Optura 100mc's. So the climbing cams would match up better with my GL2. I must say my GL2 makes the perfect basecamp " ground cam ". My fiance shot excellent footage of 3 of us ice climbing Mt. Dade in the High Sierra not long ago - from 1 mile and 1500 verticle feet away! Even with the 50x digital setting, the zoom on the GL2 produced absolutly awesome footage. For some things size matters, but that 20x lens sure does too!