GL2 / XM2 Frame mode

Benjamin Hill · January 19th, 2007, 09:26 PM

Frame mode is for when you're trying to be ambivalent, whereas normal is for when you are trying to appear more deliberate in your intentions.

Jk. Seriously, the look is different and can be likened to a faux-30P compared to normal 60i. Something useful would be to switch your camera to Frame mode, shoot a bunch of footage, and see how it looks on TV. It IS different, but my opinion is that 30P or Frame mode (not the same but similar) are somewhat more flexible in their application than 24P or 60i. That statement assumes that the 24P look echoes cinema and narrative filmmaking, whereas the 60i look=real. This is an over-simplification, I know.

But it is a sort of a hybrid look, as others have noted, and has been adopted by some reality TV shows (appropriately I guess) as well as for some narrativistic segments for news shows. For whatever reason.

Alex Sprinkle · January 20th, 2007, 12:40 PM

interesting. thanks guys. I'll go play around with it today.

Tom Hardwick · January 20th, 2007, 01:27 PM

I think you'll find Canon's frame mode loses resolution on the GL series, so a quick A / B test on a newspaper pinned to a wall is a good idea before you shoot your next feature.

tom.

David Yuen · January 20th, 2007, 11:02 PM

http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/co...wnloadIndexAct

Graham Bernard · January 21st, 2007, 01:26 AM

And if any PAL XM2 user wants to get the PAL version:

http://www.canon.com.au/products/dig...2_support.aspx

Ryan Thomas · February 21st, 2007, 10:38 PM

Ok, so I filmed some guys riding motorcycles in Frame mode with a shutter around 1/1500 with an iris 1.8. Some of the riders appear to have the "ghosting" effect to them...SORTA like a blur, but others, in the same exact shot do not. Like one guy can go by and it looks bad, and then another guy goes by and it looks perfect. (They were riding at high speeds and jumping, just to have an idea on the conditions) So I can't determine if it is shutter speed, frame mode or if its something I am doing? I know this sounds kind of trivial, but I don't know. I am new to this. Any help would be appreciated.

Dale Guthormsen · February 22nd, 2007, 07:09 PM

Ryan,

I would shoot in progressive (frame) and I would assurely slow the shutter speed down. The only real reason for shooting fast shutters in my book is if you are wanting to pull stills out of it. Try shooting some test footage at lesser shutter speeds. I shoot almost everything at 60 to 1/100.

Faster shutters casues what I call flicker, is that what you mean??

Tim Agnew · February 22nd, 2007, 08:41 PM

If I shoot in frame mode in the Gl2, but then shoot some footage on, say, a Panasonic PV-GS35 Mini DV Camcorder, then want to use both for a video and maintain the frame mode, would I first convert the Panasonic footage to frame first then use it? Would Media Studio Pro 8 do this/ Help appreciated (as always)

Don Palomaki · February 22nd, 2007, 08:45 PM

In general, for smoothest motion effects use slower shutter speed, and use movie (normal interlaced) mode.

Frame mode can give a bit of jerkiness or strobe effect to fast motion or pans in the frame, much as it does in the movies, because image motion is updated every 1/30th rather than every 1/60th. Also, it can become more apparent if you are panning to try track a moving object.

Philippe Messier · February 22nd, 2007, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Agnew

If I shoot in frame mode in the Gl2, but then shoot some footage on, say, a Panasonic PV-GS35 Mini DV Camcorder, then want to use both for a video and maintain the frame mode, would I first convert the Panasonic footage to frame first then use it? Would Media Studio Pro 8 do this/ Help appreciated (as always)

Hi Tim,

You actually can leave the PV GS35 stuff (which will be 'normal 60i') and edit everything together. The 'frame mode' (30p with resolution loss) of the GL2 is 'embedded' into a 60i stream, therefore you don't need to change your setting while editing (meaning you will be editing in 60i either way, or in '29,97i' for that matter...).

Phil

Tim Agnew · February 23rd, 2007, 12:07 PM

Do you mean render everything normal- not in frame mode? I thought if you shot in Frame mode (I know it's not really true frame) you had to render in frame. If you could clarify? Thanks

Robert M Wright · February 23rd, 2007, 12:28 PM

Is your goal to wind up with all progressive footage when you are finished editing?

Tim Agnew · February 23rd, 2007, 12:39 PM

Yes- I usually shoot in the Gl2 frame mode. What does the "i" stand for in the last post?

Robert M Wright · February 23rd, 2007, 12:46 PM

If you want the finished product to be progressive footage, you'll need to deinterlace any interlaced source material.

("i" stands for interlaced)

Philippe Messier · February 23rd, 2007, 01:19 PM

Hi,

Unless i m missing something,...the frame mode footage is interlaced it's just having the 'look' of 30p with a resolution loss. And so, you don't need to deinterlace this stream. If you want everything in 'true 30p' you should shoot in normal (60i) mode on both cams and then deinterlace everything (with a good program like dvfilmmaker).

But,....you can still shoot frame mode with the GL2 (hence having the 30p motion look) and deinterlace only the 60i stuff from the Panasonic. You can either way edit that in a 29.97 i timeline like i said before. Don't worry, you will keep the 30p look of frame mode.

Phil

January 19th, 2007, 09:26 PM	#361
Benjamin Hill Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Iowa City, Iowa Posts: 670	Frame mode is for when you're trying to be ambivalent, whereas normal is for when you are trying to appear more deliberate in your intentions. Jk. Seriously, the look is different and can be likened to a faux-30P compared to normal 60i. Something useful would be to switch your camera to Frame mode, shoot a bunch of footage, and see how it looks on TV. It IS different, but my opinion is that 30P or Frame mode (not the same but similar) are somewhat more flexible in their application than 24P or 60i. That statement assumes that the 24P look echoes cinema and narrative filmmaking, whereas the 60i look=real. This is an over-simplification, I know. But it is a sort of a hybrid look, as others have noted, and has been adopted by some reality TV shows (appropriately I guess) as well as for some narrativistic segments for news shows. For whatever reason. __________________ youtube.com/benhillmedia linkedin.com/in/benhillmedia

January 20th, 2007, 11:02 PM	#364
David Yuen Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL Posts: 185	Download the manual from Canon's site http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/co...wnloadIndexAct

February 21st, 2007, 10:38 PM	#366
Ryan Thomas Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Conroe, TX Posts: 37	Frame mode or shutter speed problem? Ok, so I filmed some guys riding motorcycles in Frame mode with a shutter around 1/1500 with an iris 1.8. Some of the riders appear to have the "ghosting" effect to them...SORTA like a blur, but others, in the same exact shot do not. Like one guy can go by and it looks bad, and then another guy goes by and it looks perfect. (They were riding at high speeds and jumping, just to have an idea on the conditions) So I can't determine if it is shutter speed, frame mode or if its something I am doing? I know this sounds kind of trivial, but I don't know. I am new to this. Any help would be appreciated.

February 22nd, 2007, 07:09 PM	#367
Dale Guthormsen Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Saskatchewan Posts: 3,048	Ryan, I would shoot in progressive (frame) and I would assurely slow the shutter speed down. The only real reason for shooting fast shutters in my book is if you are wanting to pull stills out of it. Try shooting some test footage at lesser shutter speeds. I shoot almost everything at 60 to 1/100. Faster shutters casues what I call flicker, is that what you mean?? __________________ DATS ALL FOLKS Dale W. Guthormsen

February 22nd, 2007, 08:41 PM	#368
Tim Agnew Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Sarasota Posts: 64	Frame rate Vs. other camera If I shoot in frame mode in the Gl2, but then shoot some footage on, say, a Panasonic PV-GS35 Mini DV Camcorder, then want to use both for a video and maintain the frame mode, would I first convert the Panasonic footage to frame first then use it? Would Media Studio Pro 8 do this/ Help appreciated (as always)

January 20th, 2007, 12:40 PM	#362
Alex Sprinkle Major Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Moore, Oklahoma Posts: 408	interesting. thanks guys. I'll go play around with it today.

January 20th, 2007, 01:27 PM	#363
Tom Hardwick Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Billericay, England UK Posts: 4,711	I think you'll find Canon's frame mode loses resolution on the GL series, so a quick A / B test on a newspaper pinned to a wall is a good idea before you shoot your next feature. tom.

January 21st, 2007, 01:26 AM	#365
Graham Bernard Old Boot Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: London UK Posts: 3,633	And if any PAL XM2 user wants to get the PAL version: http://www.canon.com.au/products/dig...2_support.aspx

February 22nd, 2007, 08:45 PM	#369
Don Palomaki Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Northern VA Posts: 4,488	In general, for smoothest motion effects use slower shutter speed, and use movie (normal interlaced) mode. Frame mode can give a bit of jerkiness or strobe effect to fast motion or pans in the frame, much as it does in the movies, because image motion is updated every 1/30th rather than every 1/60th. Also, it can become more apparent if you are panning to try track a moving object. __________________ dpalomaki@dspalomaki.com

February 23rd, 2007, 12:07 PM	#371
Tim Agnew Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Sarasota Posts: 64	Do you mean render everything normal- not in frame mode? I thought if you shot in Frame mode (I know it's not really true frame) you had to render in frame. If you could clarify? Thanks

February 23rd, 2007, 12:28 PM	#372
Robert M Wright Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Minnesota (USA) Posts: 2,171	Is your goal to wind up with all progressive footage when you are finished editing?

February 23rd, 2007, 12:39 PM	#373
Tim Agnew Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Sarasota Posts: 64	Yes- I usually shoot in the Gl2 frame mode. What does the "i" stand for in the last post?

February 23rd, 2007, 12:46 PM	#374
Robert M Wright Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Minnesota (USA) Posts: 2,171	If you want the finished product to be progressive footage, you'll need to deinterlace any interlaced source material. ("i" stands for interlaced)

February 23rd, 2007, 01:19 PM	#375
Philippe Messier Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 89	Hi, Unless i m missing something,...the frame mode footage is interlaced it's just having the 'look' of 30p with a resolution loss. And so, you don't need to deinterlace this stream. If you want everything in 'true 30p' you should shoot in normal (60i) mode on both cams and then deinterlace everything (with a good program like dvfilmmaker). But,....you can still shoot frame mode with the GL2 (hence having the 30p motion look) and deinterlace only the 60i stuff from the Panasonic. You can either way edit that in a 29.97 i timeline like i said before. Don't worry, you will keep the 30p look of frame mode. Phil