GL-2 Questions at DVinfo.net

Heidi Willoughby · August 19th, 2002, 01:02 PM

Hi Steve, Jeff and Barry,

Wow, thank you for your replies and for the return tips (Steve).

So, before I bring this camera back in (and ask for another one), I want to make sure I understand why you are suggesting this:

It's based of the fact that I'm having such trouble white balancing on the blue -- regardless of the intensity of the blue or the location I wb. Right? Is there anything else I should tell the sales person?

I don't know if this adds fuel to the fire, but Barry, I tried your custom presets and they appear off to me -- quite blue/green. While we may have differences in color taste (and/or eye sight), I can't imagine it's that off...

Finally, I am wondering if anyone knows the answer to these questions:

1. Is there a way to get a running time timecode to display somewhere on the GL2? It shows up nicely on the side of the VX2000.

2. When in TV or AV mode, is there a way to see what the default setting is? For example, if you are in TV and adjust the shutter speed, can you read, somewhere in the viewfinder, what the f. stop is that has been set?

Thank you again!

I'll keep you posted on my saga...

-Heidi

Ken Tanaka · August 19th, 2002, 01:17 PM

Since discussion under the original thread has strayed far away from the original topic I've taken the opportunity to split Heidi's new round of questioning into a new thread.

John VVV · August 19th, 2002, 03:56 PM

Heidi, some thoughts.

"I don't know if this adds fuel to the fire, but Barry, I tried your custom presets and they appear off to me -- quite blue/green. While we may have differences in color taste (and/or eye sight), I can't imagine it's that off... "

My GL-2 seems to work fine with the presets

"Finally, I am wondering if anyone knows the answer to these questions:

1. Is there a way to get a running time timecode to display somewhere on the GL2? It shows up nicely on the side of the
VX2000."

Try page 38 for viewing timecode recording and page 90 for timecode playback display

"2. When in TV or AV mode, is there a way to see what the default setting is? For example, if you are in TV and adjust the shutter speed, can you read, somewhere in the viewfinder, what the f. stop is that has been set?"

I'm still working on it and my GL-2 in not with me, but on Page 91 there are instructions to view all shutter settings during playback. It's possible that this could work for the recording display

Regards, John.

Joshua Wachs · August 20th, 2002, 06:50 AM

Ken... (or anyone)

Where's the original thread? I'm just trying to catch up and don't see where the custom presets thread is located - hence your split has confused my simple brain.

Jeff Donald · August 20th, 2002, 07:12 AM

That's why it was split. It's buried on the 7 page thread at the top. Barry's comparison of the XL1, GL2 and the Sony.

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?s=&postid=19758

We had strayed way off the comparison of the 3 cameras. Sorry for the confusion.

Jeff

Heidi Willoughby · August 20th, 2002, 07:49 PM

Hi,

Talked with Canon (again) today.

The answer to my question

"When in TV or AV mode, is there a way to see what the default setting is? For example, if you are in TV and adjust the shutter speed, can you read, somewhere in the viewfinder, what the f. stop is that has been set?"

is:

No. You can't tell (unless of course, you are in Manual).

So, if you are in TV you have no idea what aperture the camera is using (and visa versa for AV).

This is also true of Exposure Lock. You can use it, but you can't know what the shutter speed or aperture settings the camera is using.

-Heidi

Linc Kesler · August 21st, 2002, 12:05 AM

Hi Heidi,

I've been following the whole thread and I would also guess you have a defective unit: I've found the color on my unit to be quite good and adjustable using the custom presets.

Here's something I think I figured out today regarding what the camera is doing on auto settings. If you go into the Tv mode and set your shutter speed, then focus on your subject, then switch to manual, I think the manual settings displayed show what was set in automatic. I experimented with this quite a lot and I think it works, but others may be able to confirm or correct this. If you have set the AE shift, that setting will also be reflected: when you shift to manual, the setting you see as indicated on the top metering bar will be higher or lower by the amount of AE shift you have dialed in. Cool, eh?

The hitch is that if you manually shift a setting in manual mode, manual mode will no longer reflect the settings in the auto mode you have switched from. Instead, it will return to the previous manual setting you used. I think you have to power down to erase that manual setting and get it to track again.

I know this is a kludge (less convenient than actually just being able to see the info), but if I am right, it does give you a way to check and see what's going on. I could have used it today on the shoot I was on, because I wanted to avoid gain boosting, so I used manual, but I had to ride the aperture quite a bit as the clouds went by my light source window.

Here's what else I figured out, using the above technique that would have helped me today. On auto setting, I think that, as the light level drops, the camera will drop the shutter speed to 60 and open the aperture wide open (effectively
varies with zoom), before it boosts gain. To minimize gain boost at a lower shutter speed, such as 30 where I had it on manual today, the move would be to set 30 on Tv and let the camera control the f stop until it ran out of room.

Finally, I should note that I went with this camera and not the VX2000 because of the sound circuitry, which is crucial to the interviews I'm doing (external mics, manual setting). I'd heard about too many problems with the Sony to take the chance. I'm not sorry. The independent meters and adjustments are great, and the preamps are quiet (keep mostly below the green dots). I am really finding the picture quality (and color) good, and the controls very usable, once I've figured them out.

Good luck with your situation: I hope it's an anomaly, but no fun for you in any case. Why not try another GL2 at the store, and if it doesn't have the problem, ask for an exchange?

Linc Kesler

Heidi Willoughby · August 21st, 2002, 05:16 AM

Linc,

Interesting...

Thank you very much! I'll definitely give it a try in the next day/two and report back.

Thank you!!

-Heidi

Joshua Wachs · August 21st, 2002, 05:57 AM

Heidi -

I'm also in Boston w/ a GL2... maybe we could do a comparison to see if yours behaves differently?

Heidi Willoughby · August 21st, 2002, 07:00 PM

Hi Linc,

Ok, so I just tried your tips and here's what I found, and a few questions, of course :-)

"Here's something I think I figured out today regarding what the camera is doing on auto settings. If you go into the Tv mode and set your shutter speed, then focus on your subject, then switch to manual, I think the manual settings displayed show what was set in automatic. I experimented with this quite a lot and I think it works, but others may be able to confirm or correct this."

Yup, I found this too.

"If you have set the AE shift, that setting will also be reflected: when you shift to manual, the setting you see as indicated on the top metering bar will be higher or lower by the amount of AE shift you have dialed in. Cool, eh?"

Yup, I found this too. In some ways, I actually find this a bit confusing as it's more diffcult to know what a "correct" (shutter speed to aperture) exposure might be.

"The hitch is that if you manually shift a setting in manual mode, manual mode will no longer reflect the settings in the auto mode you have switched from. Instead, it will return to the previous manual setting you used. I think you have to power down to erase that manual setting and get it to track again."

This I find a bit bothersome. Here's the thing, generally I shoot in Auto (and tweak for a proper exposure given backlighting, etc.), but occassionally Iventure into TV or AV or Manual.

I know (and understand) much more about still photography then video technoology, so I like the idea of TV or AV because of my comfort with shutter speed/aperture in still photography. And, I want to get better at shooting video (design the look/feel of the shots more precisely).

The problem is, let's say I'm in "Auto," more or less the camera is going to help me keep a proper exposure. When I go into TV or AV or Manual for that matter, the camera "listens to me" more, rather then telling me what exposure to use.

If I start messing around with the shutter speed or aperture or both, I have no way of knowing if I'm going too far afield. Or, am still within "reasonable" territory (what I think I mean by "reasonable territory" is: a decently exposed picture).

I've been wondering, in fact, if there is a way to see what the Auto setting is, even after I mess around with Manual? (In other words, when I first go from Auto to Manual, the Manual setting tells me what the Auto setting is. If I then start to change the Manual setting (or, as you suggest, change anything previously in TV or AV) I won't be able to get the Auto setting to track again, until I power down. Is there a way to get back to the "default" Auto?

"I know this is a kludge (less convenient than actually just being able to see the info), but if I am right, it does give you a way to check and see what's going on. I could have used it today on the shoot I was on, because I wanted to avoid gain boosting, so I used manual, but I had to ride the aperture quite a bit as the clouds went by my light source window."

I'm under the impression that the only way to boost gain is in Manual.

By the way, have you noticed any difference in maintaining settings if you turn the camera off versus going from "Standby" to "Lock?"

"Here's what else I figured out, using the above technique that would have helped me today. On auto setting, I think that, as the light level drops, the camera will drop the shutter speed to 60 and open the aperture wide open (effectivelyvaries with zoom),"

That is what happens according to Canon.

"before it boosts gain. "

I was under the impression that gain was only used in Manual, no where else (not Exposure Lock, etc.)

"To minimize gain boost at a lower shutter speed, such as 30 where I had it on manual today, the move would be to set 30 on Tv and let the camera control the f stop until it ran out of room. "

Wouldn't this mess up the look and frame rate of the video?

Thank you for the tips and your opinion on the GL2 (vs. 2000).

Look forward to your response.

-Heidi

Heidi Willoughby · August 21st, 2002, 07:01 PM

If you've figured yours out... sure, that'd be great to compare. You can comtact me at heidi@media.mit.edu

-Heidi

Barry Goyette · August 21st, 2002, 07:29 PM

Heidi

the Gain is adjusted (boosted) in all automatic modes once the minimum shutter speed (av mode)- 1/60, or minimum aperture (tv mode) 1.6-2.4 , or both (auto, green box) are achieved.

the 1/30 sec speed is very similar to the normal frame mode in look, although their is more blurring of movement, and sometimes on the xl1s it appears to cause an overall loss of sharpness, although I haven't noticed this on the gl2.

Have you taken that camera back yet?

Barry

Heidi Willoughby · August 21st, 2002, 08:35 PM

Thanks, Barry.

That helps! One thing that's odd (or maybe not), when I spoke to one of the Sr. Techs at Canon, they swore to me that you only got Gain in manual.

I'm taking the camera back tomorrow. I wanted to try Linc's info. and re-try your Custom Preset suggestions first.

I'll keep everyone posted.

-Heidi

Barry Goyette · August 21st, 2002, 08:53 PM

My guess is that the tech at canon was referring to your inability to "access" the gain in the auto modes, which would be correct...trust me, walk into a darkened room with the camera on auto, and you'll see that gain kick up enough to see the grain on the lcd...anyway, good luck tomorrow.

Barry

Casey Visco · August 22nd, 2002, 07:08 AM

barry is right, in fact there is usually a chart in the manual that tells you what options are present automatically or available to you in the various shooting modes. (at least there is one in the GL1 manual). and gain is omnipresent in all modes, even if you can only "gain" control of it in manual mode.

August 19th, 2002, 01:17 PM	#2
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	Since discussion under the original thread has strayed far away from the original topic I've taken the opportunity to split Heidi's new round of questioning into a new thread. __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

August 21st, 2002, 05:16 AM	#8
Heidi Willoughby Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 42	Linc's suggestion Linc, Interesting... Thank you very much! I'll definitely give it a try in the next day/two and report back. Thank you!! -Heidi

August 21st, 2002, 07:00 PM	#10
Heidi Willoughby Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 42	Linc, Schwachs Hi Linc, Ok, so I just tried your tips and here's what I found, and a few questions, of course :-) "Here's something I think I figured out today regarding what the camera is doing on auto settings. If you go into the Tv mode and set your shutter speed, then focus on your subject, then switch to manual, I think the manual settings displayed show what was set in automatic. I experimented with this quite a lot and I think it works, but others may be able to confirm or correct this." Yup, I found this too. "If you have set the AE shift, that setting will also be reflected: when you shift to manual, the setting you see as indicated on the top metering bar will be higher or lower by the amount of AE shift you have dialed in. Cool, eh?" Yup, I found this too. In some ways, I actually find this a bit confusing as it's more diffcult to know what a "correct" (shutter speed to aperture) exposure might be. "The hitch is that if you manually shift a setting in manual mode, manual mode will no longer reflect the settings in the auto mode you have switched from. Instead, it will return to the previous manual setting you used. I think you have to power down to erase that manual setting and get it to track again." This I find a bit bothersome. Here's the thing, generally I shoot in Auto (and tweak for a proper exposure given backlighting, etc.), but occassionally Iventure into TV or AV or Manual. I know (and understand) much more about still photography then video technoology, so I like the idea of TV or AV because of my comfort with shutter speed/aperture in still photography. And, I want to get better at shooting video (design the look/feel of the shots more precisely). The problem is, let's say I'm in "Auto," more or less the camera is going to help me keep a proper exposure. When I go into TV or AV or Manual for that matter, the camera "listens to me" more, rather then telling me what exposure to use. If I start messing around with the shutter speed or aperture or both, I have no way of knowing if I'm going too far afield. Or, am still within "reasonable" territory (what I think I mean by "reasonable territory" is: a decently exposed picture). I've been wondering, in fact, if there is a way to see what the Auto setting is, even after I mess around with Manual? (In other words, when I first go from Auto to Manual, the Manual setting tells me what the Auto setting is. If I then start to change the Manual setting (or, as you suggest, change anything previously in TV or AV) I won't be able to get the Auto setting to track again, until I power down. Is there a way to get back to the "default" Auto? "I know this is a kludge (less convenient than actually just being able to see the info), but if I am right, it does give you a way to check and see what's going on. I could have used it today on the shoot I was on, because I wanted to avoid gain boosting, so I used manual, but I had to ride the aperture quite a bit as the clouds went by my light source window." I'm under the impression that the only way to boost gain is in Manual. By the way, have you noticed any difference in maintaining settings if you turn the camera off versus going from "Standby" to "Lock?" "Here's what else I figured out, using the above technique that would have helped me today. On auto setting, I think that, as the light level drops, the camera will drop the shutter speed to 60 and open the aperture wide open (effectivelyvaries with zoom)," That is what happens according to Canon. "before it boosts gain. " I was under the impression that gain was only used in Manual, no where else (not Exposure Lock, etc.) "To minimize gain boost at a lower shutter speed, such as 30 where I had it on manual today, the move would be to set 30 on Tv and let the camera control the f stop until it ran out of room. " Wouldn't this mess up the look and frame rate of the video? Thank you for the tips and your opinion on the GL2 (vs. 2000). Look forward to your response. -Heidi

August 21st, 2002, 07:01 PM	#11
Heidi Willoughby Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 42	Schwachs If you've figured yours out... sure, that'd be great to compare. You can comtact me at heidi@media.mit.edu -Heidi

August 21st, 2002, 08:35 PM	#13
Heidi Willoughby Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 42	Taking the camera back... Thanks, Barry. That helps! One thing that's odd (or maybe not), when I spoke to one of the Sr. Techs at Canon, they swore to me that you only got Gain in manual. I'm taking the camera back tomorrow. I wanted to try Linc's info. and re-try your Custom Preset suggestions first. I'll keep everyone posted. -Heidi

August 19th, 2002, 01:02 PM	#1
Heidi Willoughby Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 42	Hi Steve, Jeff and Barry, Wow, thank you for your replies and for the return tips (Steve). So, before I bring this camera back in (and ask for another one), I want to make sure I understand why you are suggesting this: It's based of the fact that I'm having such trouble white balancing on the blue -- regardless of the intensity of the blue or the location I wb. Right? Is there anything else I should tell the sales person? I don't know if this adds fuel to the fire, but Barry, I tried your custom presets and they appear off to me -- quite blue/green. While we may have differences in color taste (and/or eye sight), I can't imagine it's that off... Finally, I am wondering if anyone knows the answer to these questions: 1. Is there a way to get a running time timecode to display somewhere on the GL2? It shows up nicely on the side of the VX2000. 2. When in TV or AV mode, is there a way to see what the default setting is? For example, if you are in TV and adjust the shutter speed, can you read, somewhere in the viewfinder, what the f. stop is that has been set? Thank you again! I'll keep you posted on my saga... -Heidi

August 19th, 2002, 03:56 PM	#3
John VVV Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Southern California Posts: 32	Heidi, some thoughts. "I don't know if this adds fuel to the fire, but Barry, I tried your custom presets and they appear off to me -- quite blue/green. While we may have differences in color taste (and/or eye sight), I can't imagine it's that off... " My GL-2 seems to work fine with the presets "Finally, I am wondering if anyone knows the answer to these questions: 1. Is there a way to get a running time timecode to display somewhere on the GL2? It shows up nicely on the side of the VX2000." Try page 38 for viewing timecode recording and page 90 for timecode playback display "2. When in TV or AV mode, is there a way to see what the default setting is? For example, if you are in TV and adjust the shutter speed, can you read, somewhere in the viewfinder, what the f. stop is that has been set?" I'm still working on it and my GL-2 in not with me, but on Page 91 there are instructions to view all shutter settings during playback. It's possible that this could work for the recording display Regards, John.

August 20th, 2002, 06:50 AM	#4
Joshua Wachs Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 95	Ken... (or anyone) Where's the original thread? I'm just trying to catch up and don't see where the custom presets thread is located - hence your split has confused my simple brain.

August 20th, 2002, 07:12 AM	#5
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	That's why it was split. It's buried on the 7 page thread at the top. Barry's comparison of the XL1, GL2 and the Sony. http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?s=&postid=19758 We had strayed way off the comparison of the 3 cameras. Sorry for the confusion. Jeff

August 20th, 2002, 07:49 PM	#6
Heidi Willoughby Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 42	Hi, Talked with Canon (again) today. The answer to my question "When in TV or AV mode, is there a way to see what the default setting is? For example, if you are in TV and adjust the shutter speed, can you read, somewhere in the viewfinder, what the f. stop is that has been set?" is: No. You can't tell (unless of course, you are in Manual). So, if you are in TV you have no idea what aperture the camera is using (and visa versa for AV). This is also true of Exposure Lock. You can use it, but you can't know what the shutter speed or aperture settings the camera is using. -Heidi

August 21st, 2002, 12:05 AM	#7
Linc Kesler Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Vancouver BC Posts: 65	Hi Heidi, I've been following the whole thread and I would also guess you have a defective unit: I've found the color on my unit to be quite good and adjustable using the custom presets. Here's something I think I figured out today regarding what the camera is doing on auto settings. If you go into the Tv mode and set your shutter speed, then focus on your subject, then switch to manual, I think the manual settings displayed show what was set in automatic. I experimented with this quite a lot and I think it works, but others may be able to confirm or correct this. If you have set the AE shift, that setting will also be reflected: when you shift to manual, the setting you see as indicated on the top metering bar will be higher or lower by the amount of AE shift you have dialed in. Cool, eh? The hitch is that if you manually shift a setting in manual mode, manual mode will no longer reflect the settings in the auto mode you have switched from. Instead, it will return to the previous manual setting you used. I think you have to power down to erase that manual setting and get it to track again. I know this is a kludge (less convenient than actually just being able to see the info), but if I am right, it does give you a way to check and see what's going on. I could have used it today on the shoot I was on, because I wanted to avoid gain boosting, so I used manual, but I had to ride the aperture quite a bit as the clouds went by my light source window. Here's what else I figured out, using the above technique that would have helped me today. On auto setting, I think that, as the light level drops, the camera will drop the shutter speed to 60 and open the aperture wide open (effectively varies with zoom), before it boosts gain. To minimize gain boost at a lower shutter speed, such as 30 where I had it on manual today, the move would be to set 30 on Tv and let the camera control the f stop until it ran out of room. Finally, I should note that I went with this camera and not the VX2000 because of the sound circuitry, which is crucial to the interviews I'm doing (external mics, manual setting). I'd heard about too many problems with the Sony to take the chance. I'm not sorry. The independent meters and adjustments are great, and the preamps are quiet (keep mostly below the green dots). I am really finding the picture quality (and color) good, and the controls very usable, once I've figured them out. Good luck with your situation: I hope it's an anomaly, but no fun for you in any case. Why not try another GL2 at the store, and if it doesn't have the problem, ask for an exchange? Linc Kesler

August 21st, 2002, 05:57 AM	#9
Joshua Wachs Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 95	Heidi - I'm also in Boston w/ a GL2... maybe we could do a comparison to see if yours behaves differently?

August 21st, 2002, 07:29 PM	#12
Barry Goyette Trustee Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: San Luis Obispo CA Posts: 1,195	Heidi the Gain is adjusted (boosted) in all automatic modes once the minimum shutter speed (av mode)- 1/60, or minimum aperture (tv mode) 1.6-2.4 , or both (auto, green box) are achieved. the 1/30 sec speed is very similar to the normal frame mode in look, although their is more blurring of movement, and sometimes on the xl1s it appears to cause an overall loss of sharpness, although I haven't noticed this on the gl2. Have you taken that camera back yet? Barry

August 21st, 2002, 08:53 PM	#14
Barry Goyette Trustee Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: San Luis Obispo CA Posts: 1,195	My guess is that the tech at canon was referring to your inability to "access" the gain in the auto modes, which would be correct...trust me, walk into a darkened room with the camera on auto, and you'll see that gain kick up enough to see the grain on the lcd...anyway, good luck tomorrow. Barry

August 22nd, 2002, 07:08 AM	#15
Casey Visco Major Player Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 280	barry is right, in fact there is usually a chart in the manual that tells you what options are present automatically or available to you in the various shooting modes. (at least there is one in the GL1 manual). and gain is omnipresent in all modes, even if you can only "gain" control of it in manual mode. __________________ Casey Visco Glidecam Industries, Inc.