GL2 Review- Comparison with XL1s, PD150

[Jeff Donald]

Heidi,

Based on your replies, I believe your camcorder has a mfg. defect also. The camera should still be adjusting the color (WB) very noticeably even if the icon is blinking slowly. Contact the dealer or make arrangements with Canon to return the unit for repair. I went into a dealer yesterday and played with a GL2 for 30 minutes and tried some of the things you have been trying. The display unit worked much differently than how you've described your camera. I was able to get large color adjustments with 10% and 20% Cyan. Barry's experiences seem to support the same conclusion. I would not continue to attempt to adjust your camera because the information you learn will not be valid for a properly working model. It's going to lead to a lot of frustration later on. Sorry for the bad news.

Jeff

[Steve McDonald]

Heidi, I think your experiences and the attempts to solve the problem have helped make us more aware of the things of which we all have to be concerned when taking a new and complex camera out of the box.

It would appear that there is an internal fault in your GL2. I would not consider sending it in for repairs, but would return it to the dealer for an exchange or refund. I believe you said you had until Thursday to return it, anyway. If you get another GL2, it would be very informative to see if it behaves just the same or has a better WB function. You might compare the serial numbers of the two units, to see how close they are to each other. If they came from the same batch, made and adjusted by the same people, who knows what you might find in another one's performance? I hope you don't get soured on the GL2, because of one that didn't have itself in good form
for its first workout with you.

As a side note, I got a price quote on the GL2 from Zotz Digital a few days ago, for $2,300. B&H wants $2,500. for it, OneCall, $2,460. and Camera World, $2,800.

Steve McDonald

[Barry Goyette]

Heidi

I think I'm in agreement with jeff and steve here. The only other test would be to shoot a neutral test chart, and pull a still that could be evaluted in photoshop to be certain it isn't your monitor (but it sounds like you've ruled that out).

I've spent much of the weekend out testing a new microphone, and I shot several hours under a big variety of lighting situations, and the gl2 consistently produced images that were extremely neutral and accurate. The only time I saw anything significantly cool was when I did a custom white balance under some dimmed incandescants (actually I was amazed at how it cleaned up the usually impossible-to-correct reds in this situation). Additionally, I white balanced off a blue card and shot some footage around town, and the results came out significantly warm.

Take it back to the dealer, and let them know your problem. Most likely they will exchange it for you.

Barry

[Chris Hurd]

Folks, at this point our thread here has reached the status of being one of the longest, and certainly one of the most interesting on the board. Let's try to keep our responses from here on focussed on the matter at hand and not allow such a lengthy discussion to stray off topic. Please limit any more additions to a strictly technical nature.

From jdcameraworks... this sums it up nicely:

"The only way real professionals find what they want is to ask alot of questions concerning the equipment they will be using on an average day. If we didn't, manufacurers would just sell garbage. Video, and for that matter film and how we percieve a "look" is all in the operators, directors, D.O.P's and eventually the viewers eyes. By all means ask questions but don't be unwilling to go back to the dealer to see if other units exhibit the same traits as your camera. It really does sound like you have a malfunctioning camera. Good luck!"

Appropriate responses will concentrate primarily in a helpful and substantially contributive manner. Many thanks,

[Heidi Willoughby]

Chris,

I assume you are referring to my posts. Frankly, I believe my posts are technical and "helpful and substantially contributive." Athough I'm not really sure what you mean by this. Those who have responded to my questions have been infinately helpful!

Without first having asked the questions I did, I wouldn't have known how to use the camera properly, going back to the store only came about from these questions... Furthermore, as I teacher, I can tell you, there is real learning value in listening to another person's questions/problems AND the solutions!

Lastly, for what it's worth, for years I was a moderator for an early and well-known online discussion group, and I truly have no idea what your problem with this one, is.

Please explain yourself further. At this point I will have to think twice about revisiting this site, about recommending this site to anyone else, and purchasing equipment from any of the recommeneded sponsors.

Anyone who wants to contact me directly can reach me at heidi@media.mit.edu

-Heidi

[Barry Goyette]

Heidi

I don't think Chris is referring to you (and the nature of the discussion that we've all been having for the past few days). I think he's referring to one post, which was followed by your defense, and then someone coming to your support...etc. etc. You are new to this board, and you'll note that we stay away from these types of conversations, as they have a curious way of shutting down the REAL discussion. As you can see this one already has.

Posts of this nature--including this one of mine...are a waste of everyone's time.

Barry

How's the camera situation?

[Chris Hurd]

Heidi

I was referring to the meta-discussion banter that evolved around someone's "humorous" post. The jokes, etc. have been removed because they contribute nothing of value to the technical conversation. I would prefer that we all concentrate instead on providing straightforward answers to the questions you've raised about the cameras.

I hope that's clear enough, except now there are two more posts, mine and Barry's, that are still off-topic. I'll probably remove both of these later, so for now, please, let's get back to discussing the technical questions that you and others have raised. Hope this helps,

[Ken Tanaka]

To All:

Yesterday I started a new thread with Heidi's new questions at:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3260

I encourage the party to move to the new bar. First round of beverages is on me!

[Tom Christensen]

Thanks for the info. I have been seeking the answer to this question for some time (xl1 vs. gl2) since I can get a used xl1 for the price of a new gl2. Based on your site, I have the answer. However, I cannot download the clips on your site. I can only view them in a browser in Quicktime. Is there a way to post the files so I can see them at full rez.

Thanks,

Tom

[Barry Goyette]

Tom

Unfortunately, due to the constraints of the .mac site, the movies are resized to fit the .mac templates. You'll need to invest in QT pro ($30) to download them...or you can take a look at the stills on the "New gl2, xl1s..." page, which are from the clip.

Barry

[Neil Slade]

You say: "Users of the GL1 will find that most things are where they expect them, although when I first got the camera, Iwas at a loss to find the Exposure Mode dial."

A photo of the GL2 at http://www.digitaljournalist.org/issue0208/cameracorner.htm clearly shows the exposure dial in exactly the same place as the GL1

[Barry Goyette]

Neil

The exposure mode dial, from the gl1 (and xl series) is the larger dial used to change exposure modes or programs, not exposure. Canon has chosen to move this feature to an on screen menu (actually a switch, green box > program, and then a menu). It's not that big a deal, it has its own separate "entrance"..you don't have to browse through a menu hierarchy...and it works fine...although I think I like the dial better.

Barry

[Steve McDonald]

It's disappointing to learn that the Exposure Compensation feature on the GL2 (more properly labeled the "Auto Exposure Level Control" on earlier Canon Models), is entwined in a Menu system. My digital cam is in the shop, so I fired up my L-1 Hi-8 yesterday, which has the ± dial out in easy reach. It is so easy and important to good shooting, to be able to quickly touch that dial and nothing else, to tweak your exposure, but still stay in Auto. I feel so much in control of my camera with the dial at my command. I compare having to go into a menu for essential controls, as trying to scratch a chronic itch wearing ski pants and 2 layers of longjohns. It seems the manufacturers are compelled to throw in a few missing features on even their best models, in order to save some buying incentives for the next upgrade.

[Ken Tanaka]

I agree that analog dials are a better facility for many, if not most, features than electronic menus. But, if I had to choose a control to place into en e-menu the AE shift would definitely have been one of my choices since it's not used frequently my most shooters.

My disappointment, small though it may be, is that tiny exposure adjustment wheel carried over from the GL-1. It's just too tiny and has too mushy of a tactile feedback to give you a feeling off confidence. I think it would have been a master stroke to place this adjustment on the lens as a ring (roughly the location and width as the iris ring on the XL1s' 16x lens is). Clockwise rotations increase, counter-clock decreases. In Tv it adjusts shutter speed, in Av it adjusts aperture.

[Barry Goyette]

Steve

Actually the AE shift, while not on the body, is available as a custom key, which makes it pretty easy access...I agree it would be nice to have it on the cam body, but in practice the custom key is almost as quick.

Barry