16:9 mode on GL2

Joe Calalang · July 22nd, 2004, 11:44 AM

I've seen several threads on this. I'm still no expert but basically I can tell you that the GL2 reduces the horizontal lines to get the affect. Some have said you lose some of the video quality while others said it does not and that it just crops off the top and bottom portion.

You could use the search feature and you'll have a few hours worth of threads to read through.

Barry Goyette · July 22nd, 2004, 06:18 PM

The gl2 uses the classic crop and stretch technique (same as virtually every miniDV camcorder with a 16:9 feature. (except the new xl2). It crops the image to a 16:9 frame size, jettisoning the upper and lower pixels. Then the camera stretches the image vertically to fill the 720x480 DV pixel dimension. In post your software, or television will stretch the image horizontally to fill the 16:9 frame. Both of these stretches cause a visible softening of the image, but depending on your viewing medium, this may or may not be a problem. You may also try setting the 16:9 guides, and then adding a letterbox in post. I've blown this type of image up on my HD set...and it looks pretty good.

Barry

Matt Babinec · July 22nd, 2004, 09:05 PM

so, your recomending shooting in 4:3 and converting or croping to 16:9 later? is you are, how would you apply this 16:9 ratio in adobe premiere? if anyone knows, it would really help me out, thanks!

Joe Calalang · July 22nd, 2004, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Matt Babinec : so, your recomending shooting in 4:3 and converting or croping to 16:9 later? is you are, how would you apply this 16:9 ratio in adobe premiere? if anyone knows, it would really help me out, thanks!

I don't use Premiere but in case you didn't know, there is a 16:9 frame you can turn on in the GL2 to guide your shots while youre' shooting in 4:3 mode.

Barry Goyette · July 23rd, 2004, 09:58 AM

Matt,

The method I'm offering (not necessarily recommending over the crop and stretch method) really doesn't involve a 16:9 output in premiere. Its a simple letterbox technique, that will play on a 4:3 set with black bars on the top and bottom. When playing on a widescreen tv, you would use one of the zoom options for playback. I do it on a 34" widescreed HD Sony Wega, and it looks very nice. There are occasional jaggies in high contrast areas and fast movement, but typically it looks better than most SD broadcast sources...

Realistically there isn't a lot of difference between the two methods..they are both using the same area of the ccd's...the difference is doing the blow up in camera and software, versus using the monitor's hardware...if I had to guess, the crop and stretch method would produce a slightly softer, less pixelated image, whereas the letterbox might be a tad crisper with occasional jaggies (this would depend on the monitor's conversion method.)

Barry

Charlie Durand · July 23rd, 2004, 10:29 AM

Ok, so this is what I thought. The 4:3 image is just being cropped.

My other cameras have a "widescreen" mode butt he quality was terrible so I never used it. The picture quality with this GL2 in 16:9 mode is much better.

While my TV can handle the widescreen pictures most of the people who would ever see my video don't so I'm going to keep everything in 4:3 and use the 16:9 guides as you've suggested. If I want a "widescreen" version later I can make one in Premiere easy enough.

Thanks for the replies!

Charlie

Charlie Durand · July 26th, 2004, 01:43 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Barry Goyette : The gl2 uses the classic crop and stretch technique (same as virtually every miniDV camcorder with a 16:9 feature. (except the new xl2). It crops the image to a 16:9 frame size, jettisoning the upper and lower pixels. Then the camera stretches the image vertically to fill the 720x480 DV pixel dimension. In post your software, or television will stretch the image horizontally to fill the 16:9 frame. Both of these stretches cause a visible softening of the image, but depending on your viewing medium, this may or may not be a problem. You may also try setting the 16:9 guides, and then adding a letterbox in post. I've blown this type of image up on my HD set...and it looks pretty good.

Barry -->>>

One followup question I failed to ask last week is:

In the 16:9 shooting mode I'm not actually seeing any more image on the sides, correct? It's the same 4:3 image with the top and bottom cropped, correct?

I did some test shots. I think it's the same width, just stretched for the 16:9 ratio. My friend swears he sees a wider image.

I think he's just easily misled.

Barry Goyette · July 26th, 2004, 02:09 PM

<In the 16:9 shooting mode I'm not actually seeing any more image on the sides, correct? It's the same 4:3 image with the top and bottom cropped, correct?>

Correctamundo. No extra coverage.

Barry

Charlie Durand · July 26th, 2004, 03:00 PM

Ok, sorry if these are all novice/rookie questions. Since I'm a novice/rook, especially with a GL2, please forgive.

So my plan is to skip shooting in 16:9 mode. I can always change it in Premiere should the "need" come up. Which I don't think will happen. No one in the family even has a true widescreen display anyhow.

Thanks for the responses. This has been a great resource for DV info in general and the GL2 in particular.

Charlie

Bob Reed · October 20th, 2004, 12:50 PM

After buying a widescreen HDTV, I started shooting some video on my GL-2 in 16:9 format. When viewing this video on the tv I found that the tv autoswitches to full screen (which it should do) but the apparent sharpness and definition of the video suffers greatly. When I shoot in 4:3. the video does not fill the screen but is razor sharp.

What exactly happens when you switch to 16:9? Is the camera disposing of some pixels (and thus reducing resolution) just to arrive at a 16:9 ratio?

Bob Reed

Robin Davies-Rollinson · October 20th, 2004, 01:04 PM

Yes.
It's cropping top and botom and then electronically stretching the image to give a FHA (Full Height Anamorphic) image which widescreen TVs will unstretch to give the 16:9 picture.

Robin

Mickey Stroud · December 20th, 2004, 02:22 PM

How do you shoot 16:9 format on the GL2. I see a 16:9 setting in the Camera Set Up Menu but the 16:9 mienu item is "pinked out" and I'm unable to set it.

Any suggestions?

Ken Tanaka · December 20th, 2004, 02:37 PM

Hi Mickey,
Do you have the camera in "green box" program exposure mode? That may be your problem.

Mickey Stroud · December 20th, 2004, 02:47 PM

Ken,
You are the man. Duh. Amazing how your brain checks out when you are under the pressure of an immediate shoot. You saved the day...and in a timely manner. DVInfo is the greatest.

Mickey

Rob Lohman · December 21st, 2004, 09:03 AM

Mickey: keep in mind that shooting in 16:9 on the GL2 does not
give you an increased resolution or expanded Field-of-View since
it is a fake 16:9. You probably already know this, but I just want
to be safe!

July 22nd, 2004, 11:44 AM	#91
Joe Calalang Regular Crew Join Date: May 2004 Location: Mid-Atlantic Posts: 84	I've seen several threads on this. I'm still no expert but basically I can tell you that the GL2 reduces the horizontal lines to get the affect. Some have said you lose some of the video quality while others said it does not and that it just crops off the top and bottom portion. You could use the search feature and you'll have a few hours worth of threads to read through. __________________ Newbie using Canon GL2 and Powerbook G4 1.25 gHz 512ram and a Mac Pro

October 20th, 2004, 12:50 PM	#100
Bob Reed New Boot Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ellicott City, Maryland Posts: 20	16x9 Output Question After buying a widescreen HDTV, I started shooting some video on my GL-2 in 16:9 format. When viewing this video on the tv I found that the tv autoswitches to full screen (which it should do) but the apparent sharpness and definition of the video suffers greatly. When I shoot in 4:3. the video does not fill the screen but is razor sharp. What exactly happens when you switch to 16:9? Is the camera disposing of some pixels (and thus reducing resolution) just to arrive at a 16:9 ratio? Bob Reed

December 20th, 2004, 02:22 PM	#102
Mickey Stroud Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Dallas,TX Posts: 76	16:9 on GL2 How do you shoot 16:9 format on the GL2. I see a 16:9 setting in the Camera Set Up Menu but the 16:9 mienu item is "pinked out" and I'm unable to set it. Any suggestions? __________________ Director: LadyX Films, Episode 27, A Tale of 2 Soldiers, Seeking Love in Foreign Places

December 20th, 2004, 02:37 PM	#103
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	Hi Mickey, Do you have the camera in "green box" program exposure mode? That may be your problem. __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

December 20th, 2004, 02:47 PM	#104
Mickey Stroud Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Dallas,TX Posts: 76	Ken, You are the man. Duh. Amazing how your brain checks out when you are under the pressure of an immediate shoot. You saved the day...and in a timely manner. DVInfo is the greatest. Mickey __________________ Director: LadyX Films, Episode 27, A Tale of 2 Soldiers, Seeking Love in Foreign Places

July 22nd, 2004, 06:18 PM	#92
Barry Goyette Trustee Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: San Luis Obispo CA Posts: 1,195	The gl2 uses the classic crop and stretch technique (same as virtually every miniDV camcorder with a 16:9 feature. (except the new xl2). It crops the image to a 16:9 frame size, jettisoning the upper and lower pixels. Then the camera stretches the image vertically to fill the 720x480 DV pixel dimension. In post your software, or television will stretch the image horizontally to fill the 16:9 frame. Both of these stretches cause a visible softening of the image, but depending on your viewing medium, this may or may not be a problem. You may also try setting the 16:9 guides, and then adding a letterbox in post. I've blown this type of image up on my HD set...and it looks pretty good. Barry

July 22nd, 2004, 09:05 PM	#93
Matt Babinec New Boot Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: canada Posts: 17	so, your recomending shooting in 4:3 and converting or croping to 16:9 later? is you are, how would you apply this 16:9 ratio in adobe premiere? if anyone knows, it would really help me out, thanks!

July 23rd, 2004, 09:58 AM	#95
Barry Goyette Trustee Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: San Luis Obispo CA Posts: 1,195	Matt, The method I'm offering (not necessarily recommending over the crop and stretch method) really doesn't involve a 16:9 output in premiere. Its a simple letterbox technique, that will play on a 4:3 set with black bars on the top and bottom. When playing on a widescreen tv, you would use one of the zoom options for playback. I do it on a 34" widescreed HD Sony Wega, and it looks very nice. There are occasional jaggies in high contrast areas and fast movement, but typically it looks better than most SD broadcast sources... Realistically there isn't a lot of difference between the two methods..they are both using the same area of the ccd's...the difference is doing the blow up in camera and software, versus using the monitor's hardware...if I had to guess, the crop and stretch method would produce a slightly softer, less pixelated image, whereas the letterbox might be a tad crisper with occasional jaggies (this would depend on the monitor's conversion method.) Barry

July 23rd, 2004, 10:29 AM	#96
Charlie Durand Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Mountain View, CA Posts: 92	Ok, so this is what I thought. The 4:3 image is just being cropped. My other cameras have a "widescreen" mode butt he quality was terrible so I never used it. The picture quality with this GL2 in 16:9 mode is much better. While my TV can handle the widescreen pictures most of the people who would ever see my video don't so I'm going to keep everything in 4:3 and use the 16:9 guides as you've suggested. If I want a "widescreen" version later I can make one in Premiere easy enough. Thanks for the replies! Charlie

July 26th, 2004, 01:43 PM	#97
Charlie Durand Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Mountain View, CA Posts: 92	<<<-- Originally posted by Barry Goyette : The gl2 uses the classic crop and stretch technique (same as virtually every miniDV camcorder with a 16:9 feature. (except the new xl2). It crops the image to a 16:9 frame size, jettisoning the upper and lower pixels. Then the camera stretches the image vertically to fill the 720x480 DV pixel dimension. In post your software, or television will stretch the image horizontally to fill the 16:9 frame. Both of these stretches cause a visible softening of the image, but depending on your viewing medium, this may or may not be a problem. You may also try setting the 16:9 guides, and then adding a letterbox in post. I've blown this type of image up on my HD set...and it looks pretty good. Barry -->>> One followup question I failed to ask last week is: In the 16:9 shooting mode I'm not actually seeing any more image on the sides, correct? It's the same 4:3 image with the top and bottom cropped, correct? I did some test shots. I think it's the same width, just stretched for the 16:9 ratio. My friend swears he sees a wider image. I think he's just easily misled.

July 26th, 2004, 02:09 PM	#98
Barry Goyette Trustee Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: San Luis Obispo CA Posts: 1,195	<In the 16:9 shooting mode I'm not actually seeing any more image on the sides, correct? It's the same 4:3 image with the top and bottom cropped, correct?> Correctamundo. No extra coverage. Barry

July 26th, 2004, 03:00 PM	#99
Charlie Durand Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Mountain View, CA Posts: 92	Ok, sorry if these are all novice/rookie questions. Since I'm a novice/rook, especially with a GL2, please forgive. So my plan is to skip shooting in 16:9 mode. I can always change it in Premiere should the "need" come up. Which I don't think will happen. No one in the family even has a true widescreen display anyhow. Thanks for the responses. This has been a great resource for DV info in general and the GL2 in particular. Charlie

October 20th, 2004, 01:04 PM	#101
Robin Davies-Rollinson Trustee Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Gwaelod-y-garth, Cardiff, CYMRU/WALES Posts: 1,215	Yes. It's cropping top and botom and then electronically stretching the image to give a FHA (Full Height Anamorphic) image which widescreen TVs will unstretch to give the 16:9 picture. Robin

December 21st, 2004, 09:03 AM	#105
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	Mickey: keep in mind that shooting in 16:9 on the GL2 does not give you an increased resolution or expanded Field-of-View since it is a fake 16:9. You probably already know this, but I just want to be safe! __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors