16:9 mode on GL2

Adam Sayovitz · December 5th, 2003, 01:32 AM

Does anyone have the "image" of the black bars that effectively matte the view (while filming) so that it appears to be 16:9?

I know there is a tutorial on how to matte the picture in real time, but the link to the image of the black bars is broken.

Any help would be appreciated...

Ken Tanaka · December 5th, 2003, 01:51 AM

Tustin Larson prepared a video tutorial on how to use the GL2's title mix function (i.e. graphic files stored on the SD flash card) to accomplish this. See the main page of the "GL2 Son of Watchdog" section of DVInfo.net for a link to Tustin's tutorial.

Adam Sayovitz · December 6th, 2003, 01:40 AM

Well, the link on the 3rd page of that topic is broken...

I would love to have that jpg. of the black bars, or if anyone knows the dimensions...

Chris Hurd · December 6th, 2003, 11:57 AM

Adam, try this: http://www.dvinfo.net/canongl2/articles/titlemix.php.

Josh Ray · December 8th, 2003, 03:37 AM

Chris, he's not asking for the tutorial, he's wondering what size the color bars are suppose to be.

I also was wondering about this and Mr. Larson's e-mail didn't accpet my e-mail I sent. I tried making a few ones in Photoshop but look kind of unproportioned. If I find a good looking one I'll post a link of my jpeg for anyone wanting it.

Ken Tanaka · December 8th, 2003, 12:17 PM

There is no definitive answer to the bar size. "16:9" has become a generic term referring to a wide variety of generally whimsical aspect ratios.

See Rob Lohman's Letter Box Calculator for more info and downloadable mattes.

Arthur John · December 13th, 2003, 11:41 PM

I was looking at some of the accesories that are available for GL2, and see that there is a widescreen 16:9 lens available.

Would a lens give a substantially better 16:9 picture?
It costs about $699, so it would be a very expensive lens to get (for me anyways), but I intend to shoot some documentaries and a short film I want to submit to sundance 2005, so would it be worth it?

How would you set up the camera with one of those? Would you shoot in 60i or 30p?

A quick second question -

I thought I read someplace that it's better to shoot in 60i so you can convert later to 24p in editing later if you want, but you can't do that with 30p without major problems. Is that correct?

Ken Tanaka · December 13th, 2003, 11:59 PM

A good anamorphic lens will produce better results than the in-camera 16:9 feature. It will, however, take some practice to learn its use.

You can't really convert 60i to 24p in your editor. If what you're really asking is how to shoot for a future film transfer, then the place to get the best answer is from the film transfer shop you plan to use. They each seem to have different opinions and requirements.

Marco Leavitt · December 14th, 2003, 10:23 AM

I just bought a Century anamorphic adapter off of eBay, and this thing is awesome. The difference in image quality on a native anamorphic television is dramatic. But even with the adapter, if you were just going to display the image letterboxed on a regular television, the difference would be much less pronounced, and might not be noticeable at all. It's easier to use than I had hoped. Autofocus seems to work just fine, maybe slightly slower than without it, but not by much. It also gives a wider angle of view with very little distortion -- much better than the WD-58. I'm also finding that it's a lot easier to adjust the lens than I had feared, as long you don't obsess about getting it perfectly vertical every time. In fact, you generally want to cheat it out to one side or the other just a little, so it's best to trust your eyes and go with it. Keep an eye on eBay, they show up pretty regularly, and generally sell in the mid-$300 range. I paid $390, which included a Century Series 9 sunshade, and even a Series 9 UV filter.

Peter Moore · December 15th, 2003, 04:44 PM

Ken,
Why do you say you can't easily go from 60i to 24p with software? Isn't it just simply reverse pulldown?

Ken Tanaka · December 15th, 2003, 04:57 PM

Peter,
(We're veering off-topic here, and this really belongs in the "Film Look" forum.)

I am not the last-word expert on this, but no I do not believe the 60i -> 24p conversion is effectively reachable within an NLE program. It would require a 3rd party product like MB (which operates out of After Effects) to simulate such a conversion to the best of my knowledge.

Peter Moore · December 15th, 2003, 05:09 PM

Oh I see, MB would be better as opposed to Vegas or Premier. Thanks! (sorry for OT :) )

Adam Sayovitz · January 23rd, 2004, 02:36 PM

Is it better to crop the image while filming via title mix or is it better just to composite the bars in during post?

I know that during filming, you see instant results. But, if you do it in post, you have the choice of wheather or not you want to use the bars.

And, do you guys think it is a wise choice to crop the image. Personally, I like the look of it.

John Lee · January 23rd, 2004, 02:41 PM

I prefer using the guide lines that you can enable on the GL2 through its viewfinder, and then cropping in post. I think whenever an effect your planning on using, whether it's simply cropping or something more complex, can be done in post, it should always be done in post.

I guess it's also more of a subjective preference in using the bars. I prefer to capture the entire full frame though, in case something does go past the white lines, you can always move the bars in post, by panning up during the editing process, in case you make any mistakes and anything goes out of frame.

Andrew Hogan · January 23rd, 2004, 06:10 PM

I always shoot in 4:3 and sometimes crop down to a 16x9 in post but not always. I think some things are more suited to the 16x9 shape but you have to decide on whether you want to view it later on a TV 16x9 or 4:3 and then shoot accordingly ie. still shoot in 4:3 mode either way but compose the framing of the shots with the aid of the 16x9 bars if you are gonna crop down post.

December 5th, 2003, 01:32 AM	#61
Adam Sayovitz New Boot Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: CA, USA Posts: 16	16:9 Camera Guidelines... help please... Does anyone have the "image" of the black bars that effectively matte the view (while filming) so that it appears to be 16:9? I know there is a tutorial on how to matte the picture in real time, but the link to the image of the black bars is broken. Any help would be appreciated... __________________ http://www.fischware.org/cineview

December 5th, 2003, 01:51 AM	#62
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	Tustin Larson prepared a video tutorial on how to use the GL2's title mix function (i.e. graphic files stored on the SD flash card) to accomplish this. See the main page of the "GL2 Son of Watchdog" section of DVInfo.net for a link to Tustin's tutorial. __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

December 6th, 2003, 01:40 AM	#63
Adam Sayovitz New Boot Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: CA, USA Posts: 16	Well, the link on the 3rd page of that topic is broken... I would love to have that jpg. of the black bars, or if anyone knows the dimensions... __________________ http://www.fischware.org/cineview

December 6th, 2003, 11:57 AM	#64
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Adam, try this: http://www.dvinfo.net/canongl2/articles/titlemix.php. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

December 8th, 2003, 12:17 PM	#66
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	There is no definitive answer to the bar size. "16:9" has become a generic term referring to a wide variety of generally whimsical aspect ratios. See Rob Lohman's Letter Box Calculator for more info and downloadable mattes. __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

December 8th, 2003, 03:37 AM	#65
Josh Ray Tourist Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Des Moines, Iowa Posts: 4	Chris, he's not asking for the tutorial, he's wondering what size the color bars are suppose to be. I also was wondering about this and Mr. Larson's e-mail didn't accpet my e-mail I sent. I tried making a few ones in Photoshop but look kind of unproportioned. If I find a good looking one I'll post a link of my jpeg for anyone wanting it.

December 13th, 2003, 11:41 PM	#67
Arthur John Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Farmington, New Mexico Posts: 34	What gives a better 16:9? Lens or in camera? I was looking at some of the accesories that are available for GL2, and see that there is a widescreen 16:9 lens available. Would a lens give a substantially better 16:9 picture? It costs about $699, so it would be a very expensive lens to get (for me anyways), but I intend to shoot some documentaries and a short film I want to submit to sundance 2005, so would it be worth it? How would you set up the camera with one of those? Would you shoot in 60i or 30p? A quick second question - I thought I read someplace that it's better to shoot in 60i so you can convert later to 24p in editing later if you want, but you can't do that with 30p without major problems. Is that correct?

December 13th, 2003, 11:59 PM	#68
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	A good anamorphic lens will produce better results than the in-camera 16:9 feature. It will, however, take some practice to learn its use. You can't really convert 60i to 24p in your editor. If what you're really asking is how to shoot for a future film transfer, then the place to get the best answer is from the film transfer shop you plan to use. They each seem to have different opinions and requirements. __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

December 14th, 2003, 10:23 AM	#69
Marco Leavitt Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Albany, NY 12210 Posts: 2,652	I just bought a Century anamorphic adapter off of eBay, and this thing is awesome. The difference in image quality on a native anamorphic television is dramatic. But even with the adapter, if you were just going to display the image letterboxed on a regular television, the difference would be much less pronounced, and might not be noticeable at all. It's easier to use than I had hoped. Autofocus seems to work just fine, maybe slightly slower than without it, but not by much. It also gives a wider angle of view with very little distortion -- much better than the WD-58. I'm also finding that it's a lot easier to adjust the lens than I had feared, as long you don't obsess about getting it perfectly vertical every time. In fact, you generally want to cheat it out to one side or the other just a little, so it's best to trust your eyes and go with it. Keep an eye on eBay, they show up pretty regularly, and generally sell in the mid-$300 range. I paid $390, which included a Century Series 9 sunshade, and even a Series 9 UV filter.

December 15th, 2003, 04:44 PM	#70
Peter Moore Trustee Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Arlington VA Posts: 1,034	Ken, Why do you say you can't easily go from 60i to 24p with software? Isn't it just simply reverse pulldown?

December 15th, 2003, 04:57 PM	#71
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	Peter, (We're veering off-topic here, and this really belongs in the "Film Look" forum.) I am not the last-word expert on this, but no I do not believe the 60i -> 24p conversion is effectively reachable within an NLE program. It would require a 3rd party product like MB (which operates out of After Effects) to simulate such a conversion to the best of my knowledge. __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

December 15th, 2003, 05:09 PM	#72
Peter Moore Trustee Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Arlington VA Posts: 1,034	Oh I see, MB would be better as opposed to Vegas or Premier. Thanks! (sorry for OT :) )

January 23rd, 2004, 02:36 PM	#73
Adam Sayovitz New Boot Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: CA, USA Posts: 16	16:9 Bars in post, or during filming? Is it better to crop the image while filming via title mix or is it better just to composite the bars in during post? I know that during filming, you see instant results. But, if you do it in post, you have the choice of wheather or not you want to use the bars. And, do you guys think it is a wise choice to crop the image. Personally, I like the look of it. __________________ http://www.fischware.org/cineview

January 23rd, 2004, 02:41 PM	#74
John Lee Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Silver Spring, MD Posts: 152	I prefer using the guide lines that you can enable on the GL2 through its viewfinder, and then cropping in post. I think whenever an effect your planning on using, whether it's simply cropping or something more complex, can be done in post, it should always be done in post. I guess it's also more of a subjective preference in using the bars. I prefer to capture the entire full frame though, in case something does go past the white lines, you can always move the bars in post, by panning up during the editing process, in case you make any mistakes and anything goes out of frame. __________________ John Lee Levelse7en@gmail.com

January 23rd, 2004, 06:10 PM	#75
Andrew Hogan Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Canberra AUSTRALIA Posts: 169	I always shoot in 4:3 and sometimes crop down to a 16x9 in post but not always. I think some things are more suited to the 16x9 shape but you have to decide on whether you want to view it later on a TV 16x9 or 4:3 and then shoot accordingly ie. still shoot in 4:3 mode either way but compose the framing of the shots with the aid of the 16x9 bars if you are gonna crop down post.