GL2 vs XM2, Frame Mode and Resolution

Dave Croft · May 11th, 2004, 03:34 AM

Would 25p frame mode combined with shutter speed of 1/25 be less jittery/stroby than frame mode with 1/50 or higher - i.e. enough to make motion and pans etc smoother?

In some ways 1/25 is less jerky than 1/50 because of the motion blur present at 1/25, but of course the flip side, is that there are half as many shutters per second - so it is a double edged sword.

I think frame modea nd 1/25 could be great with slow enough motion and pans etc.

By the way, what are peoples experiences of XM2/GL2's developing faults (zoom or rewind won't work for example) as other cameras eg vx2100/pd170 seem a bit more rugged, and maybe less prone to developing faults when exposed to the same conditions.

Dave.

Prech Marton · May 11th, 2004, 04:11 AM

I was thinking the same about 1/25 sh. speed (motion blur) and 25fps frame mode.

What? Are you kidding? Not working zoom, rewind on XM2?
I will buy in 4 days!

Robin Davies-Rollinson · May 11th, 2004, 04:41 AM

Frame mode and a shutter speed of 1/25th looked absolute pants when I tried it. It would be worthless in most situations. The only reason I would consider a slower shutter speed would be in a situation where I needed more exposure and not wanting to put in any gain - and if there was no motion in the shot. Interiors of cathedrals or early dawn / dusk shots might come into this category.

Robin.

Dave Croft · May 11th, 2004, 08:16 AM

So Robin, are you saying that frame mode and 1/50 will give you better, more usable footage than f-mode and 1/25?

I would have thought that the lack of motion blur would make the footage more stuttery. What kind of thing were you shooting that looked 'pants' with 1/25.

Also a side issue, how do you find the XM2 copes in moderate to low light situations. Is it really so much worse than the vx/pd's, the XM2 must be a lot better than my current sony trv-15 (which has a grainyness in low light and uses a single 1/4" CCD). Is it that the XM2 is good in low light but the vx/pd'd are VERY good.

Thanks a lot,
Dave.

Rob Lohman · May 11th, 2004, 08:36 AM

The preferred way of shooting both interlaced and frame mode
on the Canon models (due to their unique frame mode) is indeed
1/60 (NTSC) or 1/50 (PAL). That looks most pleasing with most
things and most closely resembles the film shutter. BUT, other
settings can do wonders in other things. With almost no movement
or only slow movement you can get away more easily with a 1/25
setting for example then when you have fast moving stuff.

Robin Davies-Rollinson · May 11th, 2004, 09:30 AM

Dave,
If you have to use frame mode, then 1/50th (PAL) is better than 1/25th. Any movement just gives so much motion blur to be unacceptable - for me anyway...
As for the low-light capabilities, certainly the PD150/70 seems to have the edge on the XM2, but I wouldn't go out and buy one tomorrow. A DSR 570WSP maybe, but that's a different forum ;-)

Robin.

Michael Connor · May 11th, 2004, 09:36 AM

Pretch....no dont worry not everyone has these issues, its a good camera. There does seem to be some concerns about cannons customer service, but the chances are you will love your camera as most of us including myself do and it will be fine.

Dave i havent played with frame mode much, but just to re-iterate what robin said, 1/25 mode is fairly useless unless you have very little to no movement in the frame. If you move the camera like in a pan... no good.

By the way dave, you said, 'Is it that the XM2 is good in low light but the vx/pd'd are VERY good'. Precisely that. I borrowed a sony vdx2000 just before i got my xm2. I loved it, and there were loads of pros, like the inbuilt 2 nuteral density filters, and ring piece zoom control. The low light was good on it.
However the low light on the canon xm2 is acceptable. And i have shots in daylight on both cameras, and they are both excellent quality pictures. I prefered the much bigger zoom on the xm2, the smaller size, and found it easier to use. And certainly the price tag makes a big difference.

Dave Croft · May 11th, 2004, 12:11 PM

Many thanks to everyone who has replied on this thread, everyones views are very much appreciated.

I said earlier in the thread that I had decided to go with the vx2100, but I might change my mind again ;-) Well I think I have.

The XM2 seems like a great 'all rounder', and at the price you can't complain. My only issue is, that I bet Canon will introduce a replacement before not to long. (This won't stop me getting an XM2 though).

Cheers,
Dave.

Michael Connor · May 11th, 2004, 03:09 PM

yea i think they probably will in the next couple of years. They probably have one or two prototypes ready but will be waiting to see what others are doing. I think at the moment there is no real competition for the xm2, as everything is either more expensive or cheaper with a worse picture. There is a 3 ccd panasonic model under £1000 that i thought was gonna compete with it. But its low light performance is poor, and it only works great in sunshine (going off the demo footage i saw)
So heres to canon....!

May 11th, 2004, 08:36 AM	#20
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	The preferred way of shooting both interlaced and frame mode on the Canon models (due to their unique frame mode) is indeed 1/60 (NTSC) or 1/50 (PAL). That looks most pleasing with most things and most closely resembles the film shutter. BUT, other settings can do wonders in other things. With almost no movement or only slow movement you can get away more easily with a 1/25 setting for example then when you have fast moving stuff. __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

May 11th, 2004, 09:36 AM	#22
Michael Connor Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Durham, England Posts: 138	Pretch....no dont worry not everyone has these issues, its a good camera. There does seem to be some concerns about cannons customer service, but the chances are you will love your camera as most of us including myself do and it will be fine. Dave i havent played with frame mode much, but just to re-iterate what robin said, 1/25 mode is fairly useless unless you have very little to no movement in the frame. If you move the camera like in a pan... no good. By the way dave, you said, 'Is it that the XM2 is good in low light but the vx/pd'd are VERY good'. Precisely that. I borrowed a sony vdx2000 just before i got my xm2. I loved it, and there were loads of pros, like the inbuilt 2 nuteral density filters, and ring piece zoom control. The low light was good on it. However the low light on the canon xm2 is acceptable. And i have shots in daylight on both cameras, and they are both excellent quality pictures. I prefered the much bigger zoom on the xm2, the smaller size, and found it easier to use. And certainly the price tag makes a big difference. __________________ StMichael

May 11th, 2004, 12:11 PM	#23
Dave Croft Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorks UK Posts: 89	Great Info and replies Many thanks to everyone who has replied on this thread, everyones views are very much appreciated. I said earlier in the thread that I had decided to go with the vx2100, but I might change my mind again ;-) Well I think I have. The XM2 seems like a great 'all rounder', and at the price you can't complain. My only issue is, that I bet Canon will introduce a replacement before not to long. (This won't stop me getting an XM2 though). Cheers, Dave.

May 11th, 2004, 03:09 PM	#24
Michael Connor Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Durham, England Posts: 138	yea i think they probably will in the next couple of years. They probably have one or two prototypes ready but will be waiting to see what others are doing. I think at the moment there is no real competition for the xm2, as everything is either more expensive or cheaper with a worse picture. There is a 3 ccd panasonic model under £1000 that i thought was gonna compete with it. But its low light performance is poor, and it only works great in sunshine (going off the demo footage i saw) So heres to canon....! __________________ StMichael

May 11th, 2004, 03:34 AM	#16
Dave Croft Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorks UK Posts: 89	Would 25p frame mode combined with shutter speed of 1/25 be less jittery/stroby than frame mode with 1/50 or higher - i.e. enough to make motion and pans etc smoother? In some ways 1/25 is less jerky than 1/50 because of the motion blur present at 1/25, but of course the flip side, is that there are half as many shutters per second - so it is a double edged sword. I think frame modea nd 1/25 could be great with slow enough motion and pans etc. By the way, what are peoples experiences of XM2/GL2's developing faults (zoom or rewind won't work for example) as other cameras eg vx2100/pd170 seem a bit more rugged, and maybe less prone to developing faults when exposed to the same conditions. Dave.

May 11th, 2004, 04:11 AM	#17
Prech Marton Major Player Join Date: May 2004 Location: hungary Posts: 462	I was thinking the same about 1/25 sh. speed (motion blur) and 25fps frame mode. What? Are you kidding? Not working zoom, rewind on XM2? I will buy in 4 days!

May 11th, 2004, 04:41 AM	#18
Robin Davies-Rollinson Trustee Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Gwaelod-y-garth, Cardiff, CYMRU/WALES Posts: 1,215	Frame mode and a shutter speed of 1/25th looked absolute pants when I tried it. It would be worthless in most situations. The only reason I would consider a slower shutter speed would be in a situation where I needed more exposure and not wanting to put in any gain - and if there was no motion in the shot. Interiors of cathedrals or early dawn / dusk shots might come into this category. Robin.

May 11th, 2004, 08:16 AM	#19
Dave Croft Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorks UK Posts: 89	So Robin, are you saying that frame mode and 1/50 will give you better, more usable footage than f-mode and 1/25? I would have thought that the lack of motion blur would make the footage more stuttery. What kind of thing were you shooting that looked 'pants' with 1/25. Also a side issue, how do you find the XM2 copes in moderate to low light situations. Is it really so much worse than the vx/pd's, the XM2 must be a lot better than my current sony trv-15 (which has a grainyness in low light and uses a single 1/4" CCD). Is it that the XM2 is good in low light but the vx/pd'd are VERY good. Thanks a lot, Dave.

May 11th, 2004, 09:30 AM	#21
Robin Davies-Rollinson Trustee Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Gwaelod-y-garth, Cardiff, CYMRU/WALES Posts: 1,215	Dave, If you have to use frame mode, then 1/50th (PAL) is better than 1/25th. Any movement just gives so much motion blur to be unacceptable - for me anyway... As for the low-light capabilities, certainly the PD150/70 seems to have the edge on the XM2, but I wouldn't go out and buy one tomorrow. A DSR 570WSP maybe, but that's a different forum ;-) Robin.