Using a UV Filter for Desert Shooting at DVinfo.net

Chuck Ruland · March 10th, 2004, 04:20 PM

Ken
much thanks for your time and obvious knowledge i will use the head cleaner as needed
perhaps you can help with this one.
i will be shooting (mostly indoors but some outdoor shots) in the CA desert may. do i need a UV can i get away with the wide angle lens with cover from canon.?
trying to keep it inexpensive.
thanks again for your posts.
chuck

Ken Tanaka · March 10th, 2004, 04:39 PM

Chuck,
UV filters on video cameras are purely protective measures; they offer no enhancement to imaging at all. My personal preference is not to use a protective filter on the lens unless conditions warrant the protection.

That said, shooting in the desert is, unfortunately, one of those situation in which you may want to protect that lens. Wind, even a little, and sand make for a very efficient abrasive that really could damage the coating on that lens.

Also unfortunately, if you are using Canon's WD-58H wide angle lens, you will have no opportunity to attach a filter to that lens; it has no threads. Your alternatives, therefore, are:

(a) Outfit the camera with a matte box (on rails) and use a protective glass filter in the matte box. (A relatively expensive solution.)

(b) Forgo using the WD-58 lens (if that's what you're using) and place a UV on the main lens. (This may compromise the aesthetics of some of your shot plans.)

Perhaps someone else has other ideas for protecting your lens in this environment.

If you choose (c) (i.e. damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead) just be sure that you keep your lens capped as much as possible and be sure to bring a nice, soft photo brush. Do not, under any circumstances, wipe the lens until you're indoors and can make sure that it's completely free of grit.

Good luck.

Franck Ler · March 10th, 2004, 06:39 PM

HI I was filming in the desert just 2 weeks ago (palm Desert) and honestly, more than a wide angle, I really needed a polarizer of some kind and get rid of the haze ... even now that it is warmer (90 today) there is considerable haze and in panorama, you will need to kill that haze.
As well, colors are washed out in the desert, sand is not gold but off white, get a warm filter or be ready to edit in post.

I am only experimenting so far, maybe someone could confirm and have better ideas about the weather conditions, colors or depth of field with haze

Frank Granovski · March 10th, 2004, 06:50 PM

A good polarizer would certainly help.

Chuck Ruland · March 12th, 2004, 06:04 AM

Thanks guys
since new to all this where can i find out which polarizer i need and can it be used indoors as well as out.
or am i better off with UV filter.
I'm thinking i wil be going from indoors to out doors pretty quick and maybe not have time to add lense.
chuck

Frank Granovski · March 12th, 2004, 06:41 AM

The polarizer is useful in sunny conditions and it will also add more contrast. A UV can be used everywhere, indoors and out, and is used mainly to protect the cam's lens. So, both the UV and polarizer are important. What kind of polarizer? A linear or circular, doesn't matter which. Heliopan and B+W make good ones. For a UV, I kinda like the multi-coated Hoya. These are available at B&H, one of the forum's sponsors.

Chuck Ruland · March 13th, 2004, 06:33 AM

Thanks guys
as usual what a great forum
dont think i'd have considered this project without all the knowledge available here.
chuck

Marco Leavitt · March 13th, 2004, 10:34 AM

I have a Century sunshade that fits my WD-58 adapter. I normally use it with Century's 16:9 adapter, which requires a metal sleeve to fit. Without the sleeve it clamps on the WD-58 nicely. I have no idea what it costs new, because I got it used (it came with the 16:9 adapter), but it would certainly be a lot less money than a full mattebox. The sunshade accepts a single round 80mm Series 9 filter, which would allow you to use a polarizer, ND filter, or whatever with a wide angle lens. With all that sun, I would really consider an ND filter. The sunshade gives about as much flare protection as you can get with a wide angle lens. The markings on this sunshade read: Digital Sunshade, Series 9 - 80mm Century Precision Optics U.S.A. By the way, if you are worried about dust and sand, I would definitely pick up a couple of cans of compressed air. That way you can get most of the grit off before using the brush.

Marty Allen · March 19th, 2004, 12:18 PM

If you go for a polarizer, go with the circular rather than linear. With the circular you will be able to rotate the outer ring giving you great control over the changes made to your image. As far as ND, what about the camera's built in ND? That has worked great for me.

Frank Granovski · March 19th, 2004, 04:18 PM

No, all you need is a linear polarizer.

Ed Baatz · March 24th, 2004, 05:18 PM

Linear or Circular? That is the question.

After trying to figure out which is what, I am still confused! Not an altogether new experience for me...

According to Hoya (not Hoyle): "Many of today's cameras use semi-silvered mirrors or prisms to split the light entering the viewfinder in order to calculate exposure and focusing distance. PL (Linear Polarising) filters can sometimes interact with these items to give unpredictable exposure or focusing. So we recommend that you choose a PL-CIR filter unless you have a manual focus camera which has no beam splitter."

Semi-silvered mirrors or prisms? Beam splitters??? Wasn't that used by Scotty on a Star Trek episode?

I give up. "Beam" me up Scotty!

Frank Granovski · March 24th, 2004, 07:27 PM

It doesn't matter, linear or cirular for DV cams.

Ed Baatz · March 24th, 2004, 07:44 PM

Frank,

Would you please explain what is the difference between a linear and a circular polarizer ??? Why doesn't it matter which you use but you advise using the linear? The Hoya website specifically warns against using linear. Are linear filters cheaper or better or none of the above? Does a linear filter not affect the focus of the internal focus lens the way some people suggest?

Thanks for your insight and help!

Ed

March 10th, 2004, 04:20 PM	#1
Chuck Ruland New Boot Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Huntington, Long Island, NY Posts: 11	much thanks Ken much thanks for your time and obvious knowledge i will use the head cleaner as needed perhaps you can help with this one. i will be shooting (mostly indoors but some outdoor shots) in the CA desert may. do i need a UV can i get away with the wide angle lens with cover from canon.? trying to keep it inexpensive. thanks again for your posts. chuck __________________ I make it up as I go along

March 10th, 2004, 04:39 PM	#2
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	Chuck, UV filters on video cameras are purely protective measures; they offer no enhancement to imaging at all. My personal preference is not to use a protective filter on the lens unless conditions warrant the protection. That said, shooting in the desert is, unfortunately, one of those situation in which you may want to protect that lens. Wind, even a little, and sand make for a very efficient abrasive that really could damage the coating on that lens. Also unfortunately, if you are using Canon's WD-58H wide angle lens, you will have no opportunity to attach a filter to that lens; it has no threads. Your alternatives, therefore, are: (a) Outfit the camera with a matte box (on rails) and use a protective glass filter in the matte box. (A relatively expensive solution.) (b) Forgo using the WD-58 lens (if that's what you're using) and place a UV on the main lens. (This may compromise the aesthetics of some of your shot plans.) Perhaps someone else has other ideas for protecting your lens in this environment. If you choose (c) (i.e. damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead) just be sure that you keep your lens capped as much as possible and be sure to bring a nice, soft photo brush. Do not, under any circumstances, wipe the lens until you're indoors and can make sure that it's completely free of grit. Good luck. __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

March 10th, 2004, 06:39 PM	#3
Franck Ler New Boot Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Rouen France, Irvine CA Posts: 8	desert filming HI I was filming in the desert just 2 weeks ago (palm Desert) and honestly, more than a wide angle, I really needed a polarizer of some kind and get rid of the haze ... even now that it is warmer (90 today) there is considerable haze and in panorama, you will need to kill that haze. As well, colors are washed out in the desert, sand is not gold but off white, get a warm filter or be ready to edit in post. I am only experimenting so far, maybe someone could confirm and have better ideas about the weather conditions, colors or depth of field with haze __________________ voir, c'est croire

March 12th, 2004, 06:04 AM	#5
Chuck Ruland New Boot Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Huntington, Long Island, NY Posts: 11	polarizer Thanks guys since new to all this where can i find out which polarizer i need and can it be used indoors as well as out. or am i better off with UV filter. I'm thinking i wil be going from indoors to out doors pretty quick and maybe not have time to add lense. chuck __________________ I make it up as I go along

March 13th, 2004, 06:33 AM	#7
Chuck Ruland New Boot Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Huntington, Long Island, NY Posts: 11	polarizer Thanks guys as usual what a great forum dont think i'd have considered this project without all the knowledge available here. chuck __________________ I make it up as I go along

March 10th, 2004, 06:50 PM	#4
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	A good polarizer would certainly help.

March 12th, 2004, 06:41 AM	#6
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	The polarizer is useful in sunny conditions and it will also add more contrast. A UV can be used everywhere, indoors and out, and is used mainly to protect the cam's lens. So, both the UV and polarizer are important. What kind of polarizer? A linear or circular, doesn't matter which. Heliopan and B+W make good ones. For a UV, I kinda like the multi-coated Hoya. These are available at B&H, one of the forum's sponsors.

March 13th, 2004, 10:34 AM	#8
Marco Leavitt Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Albany, NY 12210 Posts: 2,652	I have a Century sunshade that fits my WD-58 adapter. I normally use it with Century's 16:9 adapter, which requires a metal sleeve to fit. Without the sleeve it clamps on the WD-58 nicely. I have no idea what it costs new, because I got it used (it came with the 16:9 adapter), but it would certainly be a lot less money than a full mattebox. The sunshade accepts a single round 80mm Series 9 filter, which would allow you to use a polarizer, ND filter, or whatever with a wide angle lens. With all that sun, I would really consider an ND filter. The sunshade gives about as much flare protection as you can get with a wide angle lens. The markings on this sunshade read: Digital Sunshade, Series 9 - 80mm Century Precision Optics U.S.A. By the way, if you are worried about dust and sand, I would definitely pick up a couple of cans of compressed air. That way you can get most of the grit off before using the brush.

March 19th, 2004, 12:18 PM	#9
Marty Allen New Boot Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Kenosha, Wisconsin Posts: 11	Polarizer If you go for a polarizer, go with the circular rather than linear. With the circular you will be able to rotate the outer ring giving you great control over the changes made to your image. As far as ND, what about the camera's built in ND? That has worked great for me.

March 19th, 2004, 04:18 PM	#10
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	No, all you need is a linear polarizer.

March 24th, 2004, 05:18 PM	#11
Ed Baatz Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Sarasota, Florida Posts: 120	Linear or Circular? That is the question. After trying to figure out which is what, I am still confused! Not an altogether new experience for me... According to Hoya (not Hoyle): "Many of today's cameras use semi-silvered mirrors or prisms to split the light entering the viewfinder in order to calculate exposure and focusing distance. PL (Linear Polarising) filters can sometimes interact with these items to give unpredictable exposure or focusing. So we recommend that you choose a PL-CIR filter unless you have a manual focus camera which has no beam splitter." Semi-silvered mirrors or prisms? Beam splitters??? Wasn't that used by Scotty on a Star Trek episode? I give up. "Beam" me up Scotty!

March 24th, 2004, 07:27 PM	#12
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	It doesn't matter, linear or cirular for DV cams.

March 24th, 2004, 07:44 PM	#13
Ed Baatz Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Sarasota, Florida Posts: 120	Frank, Would you please explain what is the difference between a linear and a circular polarizer ??? Why doesn't it matter which you use but you advise using the linear? The Hoya website specifically warns against using linear. Are linear filters cheaper or better or none of the above? Does a linear filter not affect the focus of the internal focus lens the way some people suggest? Thanks for your insight and help! Ed