Anyone else get a bad GL2 at DVinfo.net

Bob Speeter · January 29th, 2004, 12:18 PM

I have returned two new GL2's and am waiting for my third. I hope it's a good one. The first one had bleeding and overblown reds. The second turned yellows to lime green with a bright boost to all the other colors. Neither had true color and I was very surprised and disappointed. Anyone else hear of this problem with new GL2's?

Chris Fangio · January 29th, 2004, 12:35 PM

My XM2 (PAL of GL2) has bleeding reds AND turnes yellows to lime green. I think you should have stayed with one of your cams because it won't get any better.

Sad but true.

Imran Zaidi · January 29th, 2004, 12:36 PM

Wow, you either have a bad vendor or some pretty bad luck. I had a GL2 for a while and know several others who have bought one, and none of us had the problems you mentioned. It was a great cam.

Anyone else have this issue?

Ken Tanaka · January 29th, 2004, 12:58 PM

We have had occasional reports of red bleed but, in my memory, none of the other problems you noted. In fact, the GL2 is generally characterized by its relatively neutral imaging particularly as compared with its predecessor and some of its Canon peers which have a slightly warm color.

Most users attempting to peg a partcular "look" will adjust the camera's color settings.

Rebecca Condon · January 29th, 2004, 03:26 PM

My new GL2 in auto is also too bright on the red side. Not bleeding just too red. I have adjusted the settings to compensate for this thinking it was a camera peculiarity.

Colin Rayner · January 29th, 2004, 03:56 PM

I have a XM2 and have notice the same with footage from my first tape, the reds are very strong using auto mode. I guess I will have to get proficient with the manual settings.

Imran Zaidi · January 29th, 2004, 04:02 PM

Yes, manual settings is the only way to go with this and any other DV cam. Auto is seldom good for anything, whether it's white balance or focus.

Bob Speeter · January 29th, 2004, 05:46 PM

Some of those responding seem to say that a camera selling for over $2000 has a major problem with showing and recording true color in auto mode and this is acceptable. I just sold my Sony TRV-17 which originally cost me around $680. It showed decent color and recorded what was in the view finder. I was hoping to move up to a better quality camera, not settle for something less.
Before I took the plunge and layed down the money to buy this camera, I did the research and read every review I could. Every one raved about the GL2 and its high quality color picture. No one mentioned the poor presentation of color on the view finder or its inability to record true color.
Did I just get two bad cameras or is this the expected quality of a semi-pro camcorder.

Imran Zaidi · January 29th, 2004, 08:03 PM

I think mostly what you're hearing is that if you run the cam on auto, you might not be happy with the results. From first hand experience I can tell you that if you just learn all the manual controls of this camera, as with any camera, you'll be very satisfied.

Remember, red is a troublesome color for all miniDV cameras, and requires care and consideration.

Ken Tanaka · January 30th, 2004, 12:10 AM

Bob,
You're received quite a bit of response to your original post. As I indicated earlier, Canon's imaging system has always leaned toward red. Sony's has always leaned toward blue. So what exactly are you trying to ascertain that you've not already learned? Your penchant for kicking what seems to be a dead horse, coupled with your new membership status, is making me suspicious.

If you find the GL2 unacceptable just get a different brand of camera. It's as simple as that.

David Ho · January 30th, 2004, 04:23 AM

Hmm... How can you tell if a new GL2's color reproduction or anything is usually off or producing errors? I mean, I haven't really ever seen Sony's color on their cameras so I can't tell if it would be an opinionated bias view on a certain color you dislike or something like that. Does anyone have to any pictures that show what an error imaged looks like? Would this only appear just after you open the camera or does it only appear during playback/record or taking stills...or what?

Bob Speeter · January 30th, 2004, 07:16 AM

Thanks to all of you that have shared positive and friendly input. I have been reading the forum for about a month and this was my first post. I am looking forward to receiving my new GL2 and spending some time mastering the manual controls.

Joel Ruggiero · January 30th, 2004, 11:54 AM

my gl2 is fine i dont have any of these problems?
Rebecca what part of buffalo are you from?

Jeff Donald · January 30th, 2004, 06:08 PM

Those that are having troubles with over saturated colors, how are you evaluating the color? Colors can only be accurately measured or evaluated on a vectorscope. Using a consumer TV will not yield accurate results in most cases. If you have access to a broadcast monitor that is properly calibrated, that would be acceptable also.

Many NLE's have software vectorscopes that can be used to determine if your footage is overly saturated. If you have questions post back.

Bill Ball · January 31st, 2004, 10:08 AM

I've spent a while checking out the red issues since I got my GL-2 because I had read about the situation before purchasing. I have done a number of tests with the LCD, viewfinder, & a low end monitor--all calibrated the best I can. I havent tried anything on a vectorscope. The results I got held up regardless of white balance settings (i.e. auto or manual) and the color balance option in custom preset really had very little effect.

My conclusion is that the camera oversaturates reds, and this is probably very intentional.

The best results are skin tones in daylight. I assume Canon overemphasized reds for this situation because they were producing what really is a high-end consumer camera. Lighter skin tones look fabulous in daylight thanks to the extra red image. The grandkids will look great at the picnic.

Red objects in daylight are somewhat oversatuated. The difference is obvious in a naked eye comparison if you look carefully. I dont see this as a problem, however, since most people dont watch your movie against the real scene it was shot from and the red doesnt really blow out unless you have a very red object in bright light.

Under tungsten lighting things get a bit more dicey. The first time I used the camera it was a close-up under low tungsten light with even a bit of red light in the background and the results (on the skin tones) were shockingly red. But this is a worst case scenario. Under properly bright tungsten light the red oversaturation could be a problem, depending on the skin tone of the person. YOu need to pay attention to it and deal with it. Under tungsten or household lights when there is not enough light you will definitely have a problem with too much red. But you will have enough other problems with your image that you probably wont notice the red so much :)

In general the red issue is real, as far as I'm concerned. Its something you need to take into consideration in composing your shots. Sometimes its a plus and sometimes its a minus.

Now that I have really put some time into exploring the camera itself I will take a look at what can be done with the red issue in post.

January 29th, 2004, 12:18 PM	#1
Bob Speeter Tourist Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Indian River, Michigan USA Posts: 3	Anyone else get a bad GL2 I have returned two new GL2's and am waiting for my third. I hope it's a good one. The first one had bleeding and overblown reds. The second turned yellows to lime green with a bright boost to all the other colors. Neither had true color and I was very surprised and disappointed. Anyone else hear of this problem with new GL2's?

January 29th, 2004, 12:58 PM	#4
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	We have had occasional reports of red bleed but, in my memory, none of the other problems you noted. In fact, the GL2 is generally characterized by its relatively neutral imaging particularly as compared with its predecessor and some of its Canon peers which have a slightly warm color. Most users attempting to peg a partcular "look" will adjust the camera's color settings. __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

January 29th, 2004, 05:46 PM	#8
Bob Speeter Tourist Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Indian River, Michigan USA Posts: 3	Am I hearing things right? Some of those responding seem to say that a camera selling for over $2000 has a major problem with showing and recording true color in auto mode and this is acceptable. I just sold my Sony TRV-17 which originally cost me around $680. It showed decent color and recorded what was in the view finder. I was hoping to move up to a better quality camera, not settle for something less. Before I took the plunge and layed down the money to buy this camera, I did the research and read every review I could. Every one raved about the GL2 and its high quality color picture. No one mentioned the poor presentation of color on the view finder or its inability to record true color. Did I just get two bad cameras or is this the expected quality of a semi-pro camcorder.

January 30th, 2004, 12:10 AM	#10
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	Bob, You're received quite a bit of response to your original post. As I indicated earlier, Canon's imaging system has always leaned toward red. Sony's has always leaned toward blue. So what exactly are you trying to ascertain that you've not already learned? Your penchant for kicking what seems to be a dead horse, coupled with your new membership status, is making me suspicious. If you find the GL2 unacceptable just get a different brand of camera. It's as simple as that. __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

January 30th, 2004, 04:23 AM	#11
David Ho Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 354	Hmm... How can you tell if a new GL2's color reproduction or anything is usually off or producing errors? I mean, I haven't really ever seen Sony's color on their cameras so I can't tell if it would be an opinionated bias view on a certain color you dislike or something like that. Does anyone have to any pictures that show what an error imaged looks like? Would this only appear just after you open the camera or does it only appear during playback/record or taking stills...or what? __________________ "Everyone has a photographic memory. Some just don't have film."

January 29th, 2004, 12:35 PM	#2
Chris Fangio Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Koblenz, Germany Posts: 70	My XM2 (PAL of GL2) has bleeding reds AND turnes yellows to lime green. I think you should have stayed with one of your cams because it won't get any better. Sad but true.

January 29th, 2004, 12:36 PM	#3
Imran Zaidi Trustee Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 1,315	Wow, you either have a bad vendor or some pretty bad luck. I had a GL2 for a while and know several others who have bought one, and none of us had the problems you mentioned. It was a great cam. Anyone else have this issue?

January 29th, 2004, 03:26 PM	#5
Rebecca Condon New Boot Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 9	My new GL2 in auto is also too bright on the red side. Not bleeding just too red. I have adjusted the settings to compensate for this thinking it was a camera peculiarity.

January 29th, 2004, 03:56 PM	#6
Colin Rayner Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Geraldine, NEW ZEALAND Posts: 88	I have a XM2 and have notice the same with footage from my first tape, the reds are very strong using auto mode. I guess I will have to get proficient with the manual settings.

January 29th, 2004, 04:02 PM	#7
Imran Zaidi Trustee Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 1,315	Yes, manual settings is the only way to go with this and any other DV cam. Auto is seldom good for anything, whether it's white balance or focus.

January 29th, 2004, 08:03 PM	#9
Imran Zaidi Trustee Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 1,315	I think mostly what you're hearing is that if you run the cam on auto, you might not be happy with the results. From first hand experience I can tell you that if you just learn all the manual controls of this camera, as with any camera, you'll be very satisfied. Remember, red is a troublesome color for all miniDV cameras, and requires care and consideration.

January 30th, 2004, 07:16 AM	#12
Bob Speeter Tourist Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Indian River, Michigan USA Posts: 3	Thanks all or at least most for your help Thanks to all of you that have shared positive and friendly input. I have been reading the forum for about a month and this was my first post. I am looking forward to receiving my new GL2 and spending some time mastering the manual controls.

January 30th, 2004, 11:54 AM	#13
Joel Ruggiero Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Buffalo,NY Posts: 167	my gl2 is fine i dont have any of these problems? Rebecca what part of buffalo are you from?

January 30th, 2004, 06:08 PM	#14
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	Those that are having troubles with over saturated colors, how are you evaluating the color? Colors can only be accurately measured or evaluated on a vectorscope. Using a consumer TV will not yield accurate results in most cases. If you have access to a broadcast monitor that is properly calibrated, that would be acceptable also. Many NLE's have software vectorscopes that can be used to determine if your footage is overly saturated. If you have questions post back. __________________ Jeff Donald Carpe Diem Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Where to Buy? From the best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

January 31st, 2004, 10:08 AM	#15
Bill Ball Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: NEW JERSEY Posts: 216	I've spent a while checking out the red issues since I got my GL-2 because I had read about the situation before purchasing. I have done a number of tests with the LCD, viewfinder, & a low end monitor--all calibrated the best I can. I havent tried anything on a vectorscope. The results I got held up regardless of white balance settings (i.e. auto or manual) and the color balance option in custom preset really had very little effect. My conclusion is that the camera oversaturates reds, and this is probably very intentional. The best results are skin tones in daylight. I assume Canon overemphasized reds for this situation because they were producing what really is a high-end consumer camera. Lighter skin tones look fabulous in daylight thanks to the extra red image. The grandkids will look great at the picnic. Red objects in daylight are somewhat oversatuated. The difference is obvious in a naked eye comparison if you look carefully. I dont see this as a problem, however, since most people dont watch your movie against the real scene it was shot from and the red doesnt really blow out unless you have a very red object in bright light. Under tungsten lighting things get a bit more dicey. The first time I used the camera it was a close-up under low tungsten light with even a bit of red light in the background and the results (on the skin tones) were shockingly red. But this is a worst case scenario. Under properly bright tungsten light the red oversaturation could be a problem, depending on the skin tone of the person. YOu need to pay attention to it and deal with it. Under tungsten or household lights when there is not enough light you will definitely have a problem with too much red. But you will have enough other problems with your image that you probably wont notice the red so much :) In general the red issue is real, as far as I'm concerned. Its something you need to take into consideration in composing your shots. Sometimes its a plus and sometimes its a minus. Now that I have really put some time into exploring the camera itself I will take a look at what can be done with the red issue in post.