Any new models from Canon in 2004? at DVinfo.net

Dorothy Engleman · December 17th, 2003, 11:28 PM

Was there any discussion at the DV Expo of a GL3 or new Canon video cameras?

Dorothy

Chris Hurd · December 18th, 2003, 04:09 AM

Hi Dorothy,

There were lots of questions but very few answers. I should know, I worked the Canon booth at that show and had to field those queries. We had a surprising number of people walk up asking to see the XL2, as they were told we were showing it. It was difficult to convince a few certain people that we had no such thing in the booth, so sure were they that their "sources" were telling the truth that we had an XL2. I never could pin down where that false "info" was coming from.

Different manufacturers market their products in different ways. For instance, Panasonic like to show "coming soon" models. As an example, they had mock-ups of the DVX100 on display for almost a full year before the camcorder ever shipped. Canon, on the other hand, never discloses a new model until the eve of the actual shipping date. It's just a different marketing philosophy, is all. And those of us who work trade show counters are always the last to know -- typically we get trained on a new item the day before we display it.

Besides, as legally binding as a signed and notarized non-disclosure agreement is, I really couldn't say for sure even if I did have any insider info. And the rebate thing -- well, rebates can often signal end-of-life for a product, but they are never any guarantee that end-of-life is near. Often, rebates are incurred simply to move inventory.

Look at it this way: they're due for something new. Those that will tell, don't know. Those that will know, won't tell. Hope this helps,

Don Palomaki · December 18th, 2003, 05:07 AM

Based on the history of Canon's previous high end camcorders (L1, L2, XL1), one can expect the replacement after a model has been out for about 3 years.

Rebates are a way to respond to competition pricing as well.

Peter Moore · December 18th, 2003, 08:07 AM

We don't know, but it's fun to speculate. :)

I think the rebates signal an XL2 early next year. There's been plenty of competition to the XL1s, and no rebates like this before, to my knowledge. JVC has an HD camera. Panasonic is currently the only 24p. It's time for Canon to step into the fray with a 24p, 16x9 native camera. The big question is will it be HD? I pray it is!

Tommy Haupfear · December 18th, 2003, 09:22 AM

Quote:

will it be HD? I pray it is!

I know this is all speculation at this point but would you really want the XL2 to have the same system as the GR-HD1 and GR-HD10 for recording HD?

I would rather just have an updated XL2 with native widescreen and progressive scan. VX2100 low light performance would also be nice.

Peter Moore · December 18th, 2003, 09:45 AM

Yes I would. The problem with the JVC is not the compression / recording system. It's the horrendously bad manual controls and so-so color depth. It's a 1 CCD camera. If Canon came out with a 3 CCD camera and did it right, I think the MPEG-TS compression would not seriously harm the footage.

Though I do agree it is not optimal, and I wish we would get a new digital tape HD format with less compression, but there was news earlier in the year that all manufacturers were adopting the idea of using MPEG-TS on a MiniDV tape, so I think we're stuck with it.

Chris Sorensen · December 18th, 2003, 10:51 AM

IIRC, the JVC also only uses 18mbps of the 25mbps possible DV datastream because of DSP limitations. If Canon can use it all, plus use better Mpeg2 compression, things could look a lot better.

Jeff Price · December 18th, 2003, 11:18 AM

When does Canon normally announce their 'prosumer' cameras? Has it traditionally been at the big show in Las Vegas (NAB)?

Peter Moore · December 18th, 2003, 12:47 PM

That seems to be the theme, as far as I know. I don't know when 2004 NAB is though. I remember the GL2 was announced and began shipping Summer of 02, so maybe we'll see XL2 summer of 04.

Steve Nunez · December 18th, 2003, 07:20 PM

Whatever happens- I hope Canon doesn't lose EF lens adaptability with whatever new "XL" type camcorder they produce- the thought of using 500mm+ lenses is just an awesome concept- especially if they go the HDV route!

Dorothy Engleman · December 18th, 2003, 07:45 PM

Thank you all for shedding light on Canon's new products' launch modus operandi!!

Now here's a fascinating tidbit:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...threadid=18525

Let the speculation begin!

Dorothy

Robert Silvers · December 31st, 2003, 01:17 AM

I don't think Canon needs to go 3-CCD anymore, even if other companies do. They have been kicking butt with the images from their SLRs with a single CCD. My guess is the future is megapixel single CCDs that don't suck.

Tommy Haupfear · December 31st, 2003, 08:23 AM

Quote:

They have been kicking butt with the images from their SLRs with a single CCD.

I guess you're referring to the latest crop of Canon Digital SLRs but they are all CMOS instead of CCD.

As far as the "possible" future of Canon models and single CCD goes you might want to read this article.

http://neasia.nikkeibp.com/nea/20031...le_278989.html

Robert Silvers · December 31st, 2003, 09:01 AM

Most are CMOS but the EOS 1D is a CCD, so they can also make good CCDs.

Tommy Haupfear · December 31st, 2003, 09:26 AM

Ah, I thought the 1D had been discontinued. My bad.

December 17th, 2003, 11:28 PM	#1
Dorothy Engleman Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Santa Monica, California Posts: 146	Any new models from Canon in 2004? Was there any discussion at the DV Expo of a GL3 or new Canon video cameras? Dorothy

December 18th, 2003, 04:09 AM	#2
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Hi Dorothy, There were lots of questions but very few answers. I should know, I worked the Canon booth at that show and had to field those queries. We had a surprising number of people walk up asking to see the XL2, as they were told we were showing it. It was difficult to convince a few certain people that we had no such thing in the booth, so sure were they that their "sources" were telling the truth that we had an XL2. I never could pin down where that false "info" was coming from. Different manufacturers market their products in different ways. For instance, Panasonic like to show "coming soon" models. As an example, they had mock-ups of the DVX100 on display for almost a full year before the camcorder ever shipped. Canon, on the other hand, never discloses a new model until the eve of the actual shipping date. It's just a different marketing philosophy, is all. And those of us who work trade show counters are always the last to know -- typically we get trained on a new item the day before we display it. Besides, as legally binding as a signed and notarized non-disclosure agreement is, I really couldn't say for sure even if I did have any insider info. And the rebate thing -- well, rebates can often signal end-of-life for a product, but they are never any guarantee that end-of-life is near. Often, rebates are incurred simply to move inventory. Look at it this way: they're due for something new. Those that will tell, don't know. Those that will know, won't tell. Hope this helps, __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

December 18th, 2003, 05:07 AM	#3
Don Palomaki Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Northern VA Posts: 4,488	Based on the history of Canon's previous high end camcorders (L1, L2, XL1), one can expect the replacement after a model has been out for about 3 years. Rebates are a way to respond to competition pricing as well. __________________ dpalomaki@dspalomaki.com

December 18th, 2003, 11:18 AM	#8
Jeff Price Major Player Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Chico, California Posts: 357	When does Canon normally announce their 'prosumer' cameras? Has it traditionally been at the big show in Las Vegas (NAB)? __________________ Jeff Price Flickerflix Nature Videos flickerflix@yahoo.com

December 18th, 2003, 07:20 PM	#10
Steve Nunez Trustee Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Pembroke Pines, Florida Posts: 1,418	Whatever happens- I hope Canon doesn't lose EF lens adaptability with whatever new "XL" type camcorder they produce- the thought of using 500mm+ lenses is just an awesome concept- especially if they go the HDV route! __________________ Steve Nunez-New York City www.stevenunez.com

December 18th, 2003, 08:07 AM	#4
Peter Moore Trustee Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Arlington VA Posts: 1,034	We don't know, but it's fun to speculate. :) I think the rebates signal an XL2 early next year. There's been plenty of competition to the XL1s, and no rebates like this before, to my knowledge. JVC has an HD camera. Panasonic is currently the only 24p. It's time for Canon to step into the fray with a 24p, 16x9 native camera. The big question is will it be HD? I pray it is!

December 18th, 2003, 09:45 AM	#6
Peter Moore Trustee Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Arlington VA Posts: 1,034	Yes I would. The problem with the JVC is not the compression / recording system. It's the horrendously bad manual controls and so-so color depth. It's a 1 CCD camera. If Canon came out with a 3 CCD camera and did it right, I think the MPEG-TS compression would not seriously harm the footage. Though I do agree it is not optimal, and I wish we would get a new digital tape HD format with less compression, but there was news earlier in the year that all manufacturers were adopting the idea of using MPEG-TS on a MiniDV tape, so I think we're stuck with it.

December 18th, 2003, 10:51 AM	#7
Chris Sorensen Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: New York, NY Posts: 61	IIRC, the JVC also only uses 18mbps of the 25mbps possible DV datastream because of DSP limitations. If Canon can use it all, plus use better Mpeg2 compression, things could look a lot better.

December 18th, 2003, 12:47 PM	#9
Peter Moore Trustee Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Arlington VA Posts: 1,034	That seems to be the theme, as far as I know. I don't know when 2004 NAB is though. I remember the GL2 was announced and began shipping Summer of 02, so maybe we'll see XL2 summer of 04.

December 18th, 2003, 07:45 PM	#11
Dorothy Engleman Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Santa Monica, California Posts: 146	Thank you all for shedding light on Canon's new products' launch modus operandi!! Now here's a fascinating tidbit: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...threadid=18525 Let the speculation begin! Dorothy

December 31st, 2003, 01:17 AM	#12
Robert Silvers Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 64	I don't think Canon needs to go 3-CCD anymore, even if other companies do. They have been kicking butt with the images from their SLRs with a single CCD. My guess is the future is megapixel single CCDs that don't suck.

December 31st, 2003, 09:01 AM	#14
Robert Silvers Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 64	Most are CMOS but the EOS 1D is a CCD, so they can also make good CCDs.

December 31st, 2003, 09:26 AM	#15
Tommy Haupfear Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Greenville, SC Posts: 1,415	Ah, I thought the 1D had been discontinued. My bad.