Zooming with the GL2 at DVinfo.net

John Flynn · November 4th, 2003, 01:57 AM

Is it possible to zoom fully into something such as a persons eye without the image becoming blurry? I kept trying to zoom into someone's eye (until it fills the screen) but the image becomes totally blurred out. Can I do this with the GL2's zoom or do I have to use a dolly?

Jeff Donald · November 4th, 2003, 06:07 AM

Are you using auto focus or manual focus?

Mark Jefferson · November 4th, 2003, 06:51 AM

Sounds like you have digital zoom enabled. Turn it off and then try it. You'll probably have to get alot closer to your subject, though.

Cheers,
Mark Jefferson

Jean-Philippe Archibald · November 4th, 2003, 07:31 AM

If you are in manual focus, zoom in your subject completly, adjust your focus until you have a sharp image, and zoom out. If you keep the same distance from your subject, you should be able to zoom in and out without loosing your focus.

Rob Easler · November 4th, 2003, 08:58 AM

You are actually TOO close to the subject. You can zoom in to the eye and keep the focus but you can't be closer than about 5 feet and do that. You wont be able to focus when zomming in tight to a close object. Get furthur away and you will be able to zoom to your hearts content.

For MACRO stuff you can get right on the object but you cant zoom in much to an object you are to close to.

Richard Lewis · November 4th, 2003, 12:57 PM

What Rob said :P

John Flynn · November 4th, 2003, 02:58 PM

I tried both the auto and manual focus. I had the camera close to the subject because I couldn't seem to zoom in enough from further away. Is there a macro feature on the camera? Where do I find it so that I can zoom extremly close into an object?

I tried focusing and zooming out but could never get sharp focus when I was so tightly zoomed in on the person's eye.

The digital zoom was not enabled.

Graham Bernard · November 5th, 2003, 12:30 AM

If sharp zooming at the END of a zoom is needed - START the other way round and then REVERSE footage in post! - Neat trick eh?!?!?!

I have done this with massive zooms into flowers - all is okay so long as there isn't any "moving" things in the picture that would be crazy! I didn't want any bees or butterflies flying about "backwards" - ha ha ha ha ha . . .. But this works wonderfully, and you are always in control of the zoom. Meaning that you can zoom out to where ever you want. Zooming in you've only got one option - yeah?

Oh yes DO DO manual focus. Don't rely on Auto NOT hunting

Ho . . . . the other Reverse option is that neat trick where "things" come into focus. Start with somthing in real sharp focus then Roll that focus ring OUTTA focus. When back at the edit bench, reverse the footage - remarkable stuff to be achieved here - the flower thing was amazingly clear . . .

Grazie

Rob Easler · November 5th, 2003, 10:15 AM

Well John if you stand about 5 feet away and still can't zoom close enough in on the eye with a GL2 then it can't be done. It has the largest optical zoom of any camera in this catagory, however it also does a decent job in digital zoom as well. Although I wouldn't ordinarily use the digital zoom, for the type of shot you are trying it would be fine. Turn that on and you should be able to zoom in on an eye to an atomic level.

Also, of course the GL2 does well with macro shots (meaning shots where you are right on top of the object) but you can not zoom on a macro shot, the lens isn't made that way. There is no "switch" for a macro. You must have the lense zoomed all the way out then get real close and focus.

John Flynn · November 5th, 2003, 08:01 PM

Thanks for the tips. What I'm trying to do is zoom into the pupil of a person's eye until it completely takes up the screen and the screen is totally black.

I'm going to try the digital zoom but the image will get distorted of course, hopefull not too much though.

I've seen effects like this in music videos before where the next scene is reflected onto a person's eye and when the camera zooms into the eye the next scene is revealed creating a transition. That's what I'm trying to do and want to do it without a dolly if possible.

Jeff Donald · November 5th, 2003, 10:20 PM

All cameras have a minimum focus distance. Attempts to focus on a subject closer than the minimum focus will result in out of focus images. The distance to subject, subject size and camera you're using will evidently not perform as you hope. Your scene exceeds the capabilities of your equipment.

The digital zoom feature might work (depending on other variables) but the pixelated look might not be what you have in mind. You may need to rethink the staging of your scene or rent equipment that will focus closer etc.

John Flynn · November 6th, 2003, 12:18 AM

Would I need to dolly foward into the eye? Should I try to get a telephoto zoom lens?

John Flynn · November 6th, 2003, 02:01 AM

I tried a zoom with a camera in After Effects with footage I shot and that worked good. So I'll zoom in with the GL2 as far as I can and add a 3d camera to zoom that extra inch into the eye. My test looked good. The 3d camera will add blur so that the image won't look pixelated when zoomed in on.

Ken Tanaka · November 6th, 2003, 02:08 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by John Flynn : Thanks for the tips. What I'm trying to do is zoom into the pupil of a person's eye until it completely takes up the screen and the screen is totally black.

I'm going to try the digital zoom but the image will get distorted of course, hopefull not too much though.

I've seen effects like this in music videos before where the next scene is reflected onto a person's eye and when the camera zooms into the eye the next scene is revealed creating a transition. That's what I'm trying to do and want to do it without a dolly if possible. -->>>

Joe,
I think you're being "had". That is, many, if not most, of these effects are built digitally, not exclusively with the camera. Elaborately-budgeted videos often draw upon the same compositing and rotoscoping skills/tools as elaborate television ads (which really is all that a music video represents). It sounds like you're basically attempting to recreate an effect that was probably not created exclusively with a camera, if a camera was even involved at all.

Dollying-in will not be a practical tactic with the GL2. Its manual focus mode and its lens design do not lend themselves well to pulling the precise focus required for such a shot.

Michael Connor · December 30th, 2003, 09:39 PM

yea i think i agree here. If you can use some kind of software to 'build' an eye with a picture inside of it you could do what your doing with the zoom, then when you get so close, drop in your pre 'built' eye graphic. Do a chroma key thing to make sure the colours are matched, sounds complicated, but good, im gonna have to try this now!

November 4th, 2003, 01:57 AM	#1
John Flynn New Boot Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 9	Zooming with the GL2 Is it possible to zoom fully into something such as a persons eye without the image becoming blurry? I kept trying to zoom into someone's eye (until it fills the screen) but the image becomes totally blurred out. Can I do this with the GL2's zoom or do I have to use a dolly?

November 4th, 2003, 06:07 AM	#2
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	Are you using auto focus or manual focus? __________________ Jeff Donald Carpe Diem Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Where to Buy? From the best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

November 4th, 2003, 07:31 AM	#4
Jean-Philippe Archibald Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Saguenay, Québec, Canada Posts: 1,051	If you are in manual focus, zoom in your subject completly, adjust your focus until you have a sharp image, and zoom out. If you keep the same distance from your subject, you should be able to zoom in and out without loosing your focus. __________________ Jean-Philippe Archibald http://www.jparchibald.com - http://www.vimeo.com/jparchib

November 5th, 2003, 12:30 AM	#8
Graham Bernard Old Boot Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: London UK Posts: 3,633	Reverse Zooming! If sharp zooming at the END of a zoom is needed - START the other way round and then REVERSE footage in post! - Neat trick eh?!?!?! I have done this with massive zooms into flowers - all is okay so long as there isn't any "moving" things in the picture that would be crazy! I didn't want any bees or butterflies flying about "backwards" - ha ha ha ha ha . . .. But this works wonderfully, and you are always in control of the zoom. Meaning that you can zoom out to where ever you want. Zooming in you've only got one option - yeah? Oh yes DO DO manual focus. Don't rely on Auto NOT hunting Ho . . . . the other Reverse option is that neat trick where "things" come into focus. Start with somthing in real sharp focus then Roll that focus ring OUTTA focus. When back at the edit bench, reverse the footage - remarkable stuff to be achieved here - the flower thing was amazingly clear . . . Grazie

November 5th, 2003, 10:20 PM	#11
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	All cameras have a minimum focus distance. Attempts to focus on a subject closer than the minimum focus will result in out of focus images. The distance to subject, subject size and camera you're using will evidently not perform as you hope. Your scene exceeds the capabilities of your equipment. The digital zoom feature might work (depending on other variables) but the pixelated look might not be what you have in mind. You may need to rethink the staging of your scene or rent equipment that will focus closer etc. __________________ Jeff Donald Carpe Diem Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Where to Buy? From the best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

November 4th, 2003, 06:51 AM	#3
Mark Jefferson Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Collinsville, Illinois Posts: 86	Sounds like you have digital zoom enabled. Turn it off and then try it. You'll probably have to get alot closer to your subject, though. Cheers, Mark Jefferson

November 4th, 2003, 08:58 AM	#5
Rob Easler Major Player Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Naperville, IL Posts: 219	You are actually TOO close to the subject. You can zoom in to the eye and keep the focus but you can't be closer than about 5 feet and do that. You wont be able to focus when zomming in tight to a close object. Get furthur away and you will be able to zoom to your hearts content. For MACRO stuff you can get right on the object but you cant zoom in much to an object you are to close to.

November 4th, 2003, 12:57 PM	#6
Richard Lewis Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Manchester and Kent, UK Posts: 256	What Rob said :P

November 4th, 2003, 02:58 PM	#7
John Flynn New Boot Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 9	I tried both the auto and manual focus. I had the camera close to the subject because I couldn't seem to zoom in enough from further away. Is there a macro feature on the camera? Where do I find it so that I can zoom extremly close into an object? I tried focusing and zooming out but could never get sharp focus when I was so tightly zoomed in on the person's eye. The digital zoom was not enabled.

November 5th, 2003, 10:15 AM	#9
Rob Easler Major Player Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Naperville, IL Posts: 219	Well John if you stand about 5 feet away and still can't zoom close enough in on the eye with a GL2 then it can't be done. It has the largest optical zoom of any camera in this catagory, however it also does a decent job in digital zoom as well. Although I wouldn't ordinarily use the digital zoom, for the type of shot you are trying it would be fine. Turn that on and you should be able to zoom in on an eye to an atomic level. Also, of course the GL2 does well with macro shots (meaning shots where you are right on top of the object) but you can not zoom on a macro shot, the lens isn't made that way. There is no "switch" for a macro. You must have the lense zoomed all the way out then get real close and focus.

November 5th, 2003, 08:01 PM	#10
John Flynn New Boot Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 9	Thanks for the tips. What I'm trying to do is zoom into the pupil of a person's eye until it completely takes up the screen and the screen is totally black. I'm going to try the digital zoom but the image will get distorted of course, hopefull not too much though. I've seen effects like this in music videos before where the next scene is reflected onto a person's eye and when the camera zooms into the eye the next scene is revealed creating a transition. That's what I'm trying to do and want to do it without a dolly if possible.

November 6th, 2003, 12:18 AM	#12
John Flynn New Boot Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 9	Would I need to dolly foward into the eye? Should I try to get a telephoto zoom lens?

November 6th, 2003, 02:01 AM	#13
John Flynn New Boot Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 9	I tried a zoom with a camera in After Effects with footage I shot and that worked good. So I'll zoom in with the GL2 as far as I can and add a 3d camera to zoom that extra inch into the eye. My test looked good. The 3d camera will add blur so that the image won't look pixelated when zoomed in on.

November 6th, 2003, 02:08 AM	#14
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	<<<-- Originally posted by John Flynn : Thanks for the tips. What I'm trying to do is zoom into the pupil of a person's eye until it completely takes up the screen and the screen is totally black. I'm going to try the digital zoom but the image will get distorted of course, hopefull not too much though. I've seen effects like this in music videos before where the next scene is reflected onto a person's eye and when the camera zooms into the eye the next scene is revealed creating a transition. That's what I'm trying to do and want to do it without a dolly if possible. -->>> Joe, I think you're being "had". That is, many, if not most, of these effects are built digitally, not exclusively with the camera. Elaborately-budgeted videos often draw upon the same compositing and rotoscoping skills/tools as elaborate television ads (which really is all that a music video represents). It sounds like you're basically attempting to recreate an effect that was probably not created exclusively with a camera, if a camera was even involved at all. Dollying-in will not be a practical tactic with the GL2. Its manual focus mode and its lens design do not lend themselves well to pulling the precise focus required for such a shot. __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

December 30th, 2003, 09:39 PM	#15
Michael Connor Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Durham, England Posts: 138	yea i think i agree here. If you can use some kind of software to 'build' an eye with a picture inside of it you could do what your doing with the zoom, then when you get so close, drop in your pre 'built' eye graphic. Do a chroma key thing to make sure the colours are matched, sounds complicated, but good, im gonna have to try this now! __________________ StMichael