Last MA 300 Question. I promise... ;) at DVinfo.net

Trevor Kennedy · October 22nd, 2003, 09:45 AM

Ok, so. The MA 300 is NOT ballanced. That seems to be the general thought around these boards. Although I can't find anything in Canon's literature to support this, I will accept this fact based on the collective knowledge of this board. Now, my question is, what happens if I do plug a long "ballanced" feed into the MA 300 instead of a short camera mounted mic as everyone is suggesting is the intended use? The MA 300 will obviously still accept this input? So how will it sound? Distorted? Hum? Silence?

Graham Bernard · October 23rd, 2003, 10:42 AM

Trevor, just did a search to locate at least a graphical represention of maybe what you are asking . .found one . . cleared it up for me:

http://www.nullmodem.com/Audio.htm

Grazie

Don Palomaki · October 24th, 2003, 04:36 AM

If the MA-300 is internally similar to the MA-100, and I believe it is, it has a balanced input and a unbalanced output. It converts the balanced input signal to unbalanced for the last few inches to the camcorder audio input. Thus it preserves the noise cancelling feature of balanced leads for the portions outside the camcorder.

Trevor Kennedy · October 24th, 2003, 08:29 AM

^^^ Can someone confirm this? I have heard nothing but the opposite from everyone else here? At least I thought I was. Maybe I've been misunderstanding? If this is the case, I would be one happy camper. (:

Don Berube · October 24th, 2003, 07:51 PM

Trevor,

Don Palomaki is correct, as always! :-)

>>>>Now, my question is, what happens if I do plug a long "ballanced" feed into the MA 300 instead of a short camera mounted mic as everyone is suggesting is the intended use? The MA 300 will obviously still accept this input?

- Yup. You can pump whatever you want into the MA300 if you use the proper cable or adaptor. Trust me on this one. You need to clarify what your needs are and you should probably pick up a good "Beginner's Guide To Professional Sound Reinforcement and Audio Recording Techniques" handbook. This is the one that I purchased for myself many, many moons (eons?) ago:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...lance&n=507846

>>>>So how will it sound? Silence?

- It depends on what is feeding the cable. Assuming that the cable is a 3-pin XLR-XLR cable and that it is being fed with a balanced, low-impedance output, it should sound fine. We could write a whole chapter here, but I'm not going to have the time to do that.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...lance&n=507846

>>>>Hum?

- If you hear ground hum or buzz in that signal, it's probably due to a dropped ground somewhere in the signal flow before the cable. Hum can be caused by many things when you are taking a house feed and is not typically caused by the recording device - in your case the GL2.

>>>>Distorted?

- only if you are overdiving the preamp on the recording device - in your case with the GL2, adjust the gain control or activate the ATT (attenuator) switch to know down the level a bit so that you can adequately control the gain with a fair amount of leeway.

- don

Don Palomaki · October 24th, 2003, 08:30 PM

And keep in mind that the MA-series is NOT intended for use with line level signals. They will start to clip pretty bad if the input gets above on the order of -10 dBV. Best to use mic level input signals.

Don Berube · October 24th, 2003, 08:45 PM

One workable solution for if you are offered Line level outs from the house feed and you do not have a mixer to convert the signal from Line Level to Mic level is to carry a couple of inline XLR attenuating pads with you. I always carry a couple of SHURE A15AS's with me, you never know...
http://www.shure.com/accessories/a15...blem%20Solvers

If you are faced with Line level and install these onto youir input feed cables, you could basically knock the signal down by 25db and then have an "in-between" signal level which would be conceivably constrained properly with the Mic inputs of the GL2 with the ATT turned on.

Hmmmmm, depends upon how hot of a signal you are receiving from the house sound console. It's always a good idea to be friendly with the house sound guy, in the even that you have the need to ask him (or her) to lower the gain on the aux record feeds.

- don

Trevor Kennedy · October 25th, 2003, 10:35 AM

Thank you all so much for your replies.

The project I have in mind is on November 6. It involves a live performance where I'm hoping to be able to patch into the house sound. I'll probably be getting line level output from there and will have to find a way to bring the level down. Not sure I can afford the Shure adaptor mentioned above. The part of the shoot will involve an interview type setting where I'm hoping to use a couple of lav mics or possibly wireless. Which shouldn't be a problem.

So, the problem most people are concerned about is actually the line vs mic level output? Not ballanced vs unballanced? Is this what I understand now?

October 22nd, 2003, 09:45 AM	#1
Trevor Kennedy New Boot Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Halifax, NS Canada Posts: 10	Last MA 300 Question. I promise... ;) Ok, so. The MA 300 is NOT ballanced. That seems to be the general thought around these boards. Although I can't find anything in Canon's literature to support this, I will accept this fact based on the collective knowledge of this board. Now, my question is, what happens if I do plug a long "ballanced" feed into the MA 300 instead of a short camera mounted mic as everyone is suggesting is the intended use? The MA 300 will obviously still accept this input? So how will it sound? Distorted? Hum? Silence?

October 23rd, 2003, 10:42 AM	#2
Graham Bernard Old Boot Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: London UK Posts: 3,633	Does this help? Trevor, just did a search to locate at least a graphical represention of maybe what you are asking . .found one . . cleared it up for me: http://www.nullmodem.com/Audio.htm Grazie

October 24th, 2003, 04:36 AM	#3
Don Palomaki Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Northern VA Posts: 4,488	If the MA-300 is internally similar to the MA-100, and I believe it is, it has a balanced input and a unbalanced output. It converts the balanced input signal to unbalanced for the last few inches to the camcorder audio input. Thus it preserves the noise cancelling feature of balanced leads for the portions outside the camcorder. __________________ dpalomaki@dspalomaki.com

October 24th, 2003, 08:29 AM	#4
Trevor Kennedy New Boot Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Halifax, NS Canada Posts: 10	Really? ^^^ Can someone confirm this? I have heard nothing but the opposite from everyone else here? At least I thought I was. Maybe I've been misunderstanding? If this is the case, I would be one happy camper. (:

October 24th, 2003, 07:51 PM	#5
Don Berube Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Boston, MA (travel frequently) Posts: 837	Trevor, Don Palomaki is correct, as always! :-) >>>>Now, my question is, what happens if I do plug a long "ballanced" feed into the MA 300 instead of a short camera mounted mic as everyone is suggesting is the intended use? The MA 300 will obviously still accept this input? - Yup. You can pump whatever you want into the MA300 if you use the proper cable or adaptor. Trust me on this one. You need to clarify what your needs are and you should probably pick up a good "Beginner's Guide To Professional Sound Reinforcement and Audio Recording Techniques" handbook. This is the one that I purchased for myself many, many moons (eons?) ago: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...lance&n=507846 >>>>So how will it sound? Silence? - It depends on what is feeding the cable. Assuming that the cable is a 3-pin XLR-XLR cable and that it is being fed with a balanced, low-impedance output, it should sound fine. We could write a whole chapter here, but I'm not going to have the time to do that. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...lance&n=507846 >>>>Hum? - If you hear ground hum or buzz in that signal, it's probably due to a dropped ground somewhere in the signal flow before the cable. Hum can be caused by many things when you are taking a house feed and is not typically caused by the recording device - in your case the GL2. >>>>Distorted? - only if you are overdiving the preamp on the recording device - in your case with the GL2, adjust the gain control or activate the ATT (attenuator) switch to know down the level a bit so that you can adequately control the gain with a fair amount of leeway. - don __________________ DONALD BERUBE - noisybrain. Productions, LLC Director Of Photography/ Producer/ Consultant http://noisybrain.com/donbio.html CREATE and NETWORK with http://www.bosfcpug.org and also http://fcpugnetwork.org

October 24th, 2003, 08:30 PM	#6
Don Palomaki Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Northern VA Posts: 4,488	And keep in mind that the MA-series is NOT intended for use with line level signals. They will start to clip pretty bad if the input gets above on the order of -10 dBV. Best to use mic level input signals. __________________ dpalomaki@dspalomaki.com

October 24th, 2003, 08:45 PM	#7
Don Berube Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Boston, MA (travel frequently) Posts: 837	One workable solution for if you are offered Line level outs from the house feed and you do not have a mixer to convert the signal from Line Level to Mic level is to carry a couple of inline XLR attenuating pads with you. I always carry a couple of SHURE A15AS's with me, you never know... http://www.shure.com/accessories/a15...blem%20Solvers If you are faced with Line level and install these onto youir input feed cables, you could basically knock the signal down by 25db and then have an "in-between" signal level which would be conceivably constrained properly with the Mic inputs of the GL2 with the ATT turned on. Hmmmmm, depends upon how hot of a signal you are receiving from the house sound console. It's always a good idea to be friendly with the house sound guy, in the even that you have the need to ask him (or her) to lower the gain on the aux record feeds. - don __________________ DONALD BERUBE - noisybrain. Productions, LLC Director Of Photography/ Producer/ Consultant http://noisybrain.com/donbio.html CREATE and NETWORK with http://www.bosfcpug.org and also http://fcpugnetwork.org

October 25th, 2003, 10:35 AM	#8
Trevor Kennedy New Boot Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Halifax, NS Canada Posts: 10	Thanks everyone... Thank you all so much for your replies. The project I have in mind is on November 6. It involves a live performance where I'm hoping to be able to patch into the house sound. I'll probably be getting line level output from there and will have to find a way to bring the level down. Not sure I can afford the Shure adaptor mentioned above. The part of the shoot will involve an interview type setting where I'm hoping to use a couple of lav mics or possibly wireless. Which shouldn't be a problem. So, the problem most people are concerned about is actually the line vs mic level output? Not ballanced vs unballanced? Is this what I understand now?