Cannot FF/RW tapes in my GL2

Dirk Mitchell · November 16th, 2003, 03:29 PM

Diane,
I'm starting to have the same problem. I've had my GL2 since March and this is the first problem I've had. I've been using mostly Panasonic tapes, but the last tape I had in the camera was a Sony. I'm having problems with the Panasonics, but I haven't tried others yet.

Did you have to send your camera in for repairs? Did Canon tell you what was wrong?

Thanks.

Diane Bogosian · November 17th, 2003, 12:01 AM

My camera is still "in the shop." Based on educated guesses from techs working counters at retail electronic shops (whose education I cannot vouch for) there is a chip responsible for the tape mechanism and they suspect that. My GL2 would give an "eject tape" notice after about 5 second of either a rewind or a fast forward 99.9% of the time. I had used the camera without incident for about 6 months (although I rarely used the GL2 to transfer images to the computer, so it was even SPOILED, never having to work really, really hard).

Canon has a FAQ on this topic on their website. http://www.canondv.com/ciw/ppg/gl2.html. Our issue is ranked #2 in the top 20 FAQ (ranked by hits, I believe)
Let me save you the trouble of navigating the website. Here is the complete response to: "If the message "REMOVE THE CASSETTE" or "EJECT" appears on the screen..."

Category : Difficulties with camcorder operation
Description : Videocassette related trouble

The lit "REMOVE THE CASSETTE" message or flashing "EJECT" message indicates the camcorder's safety mechanism has been activated and has found an internal problem.
This means either the videocassette or the camcorder has developed a problem. Remove the videocassette and reinsert it or replace it with a different videocassette.
If "REMOVE THE CASSETTE" or "EJECT" persists, seek assistance from a Canon Service Facility.

It is my opinion that tape brand-related problems would not be a likely candidate for this type of malfunction (I can still record with the G2 and have had no image quality issues...I just have to take the tape out once I've shot and rewind it/review it on my Sony TRV17(!!).

When my camera comes back, I will post any explanation Canon deigns to give me...

Diane

Graham Bernard · November 17th, 2003, 12:56 AM

. . . . hmmmm . . this is beginning to feel like a "default" reset factory setting issue. We've all had this on many "chip/software" dependant widgets and gadgets . . Take out tape and restart? IMHO, this is similar to routing past a firmware thing. What does verybody else think?

. .. oh deary me . ..

Grazie

Dirk Mitchell · November 17th, 2003, 07:01 AM

Canon's FAQ answer doesn't sound like much to go on at this point. But I tend to think it is a tape issue because of the fact my last tape was a Sony and I hadn't used them up until now. I can just picture the wet lube interacting with the dry lube residue on the tape head left by other tapes. What would it be like? Baby powder mixed with baby oil? I don't know. Plus, my camera's been in some dry and dusty conditions this summer and now I'm back in Georgia; I'm sure it's a little dirty in there, more than the standard tape head cleaner can handle. Just a guess though.

So when I rewind, if the tape goes longer than a few seconds without stopping, the timecode begins to flicker then it eventually gives an error. Fast forwarding hasn't given that result, but I haven't tested it too much. I want to hear the results of Diane's service call before I send my in because even though I know I will have to send the GL2 in eventually for a cleaning and "routine" maintenance, I'm wary because my other camera died a slow and unnecessary death in the hands of a supposedly knowledgeable service tech at a competing company.

Diane, thanks for keeping us imformed.

Diane Bogosian · November 17th, 2003, 09:28 AM

Logical cause and effect reasoning should be your first route. If you're not experiencing consistent eject messages like I was, then certainly eliminate tape switching as a cause. Sending your camera in for repair is certainly a last resort. I went through the 'is it a tape issue" scenario first (and hoped it WAS the problem!) If using the Sony tape caused the problem, then I would reason that that the mechanism would still need some sort of cleaning (tape head cleaner?) to rectify that problem...there are many posts that advice on how to troubleshoot that. I am puzzled that manufacturers of both cameras and tapes do not mention switching brands as a potential problem in either their manuals or their websites.

As much as it is discussed and accepted on a "real world" level, I have yet to run across this caution in manuals. It certainly would seem to be a responsible thing to discuss in a camera manual (along with warnings not to let a camera go through rapid temperature changes, etc etc)

It also seems logical to me that, if brand-switching and lubs etc could damage a camera, the consequences would not be limited to rewinding/fast-forwarding, but would manifest itself in the recording and picture quality as well. That is, every aspect that is tape-dependent. That was my thinking. Your experience may be different. I was GRATEFUL that whatever problem was causing my rw/ff issues, it hadn't affected my ability to at least shoot quality images to tape.

Keep us in touch re your situation as well, Dirk. If after cleaning your tape heads, etc. you no longer have an eject tape problem, it will be useful info for all of us in the future.

Diane

Walter Scott · November 20th, 2003, 07:43 AM

I can add to this, but the news is not good! I have a 2 year old Canon Opturi. Recently, whenever I would try to rewind the tape I would get the "Eject" message. Note that Fast forward, as well as fast forward and reverse search all worked fine. I bought a mini DV rewinder at Radio Shack to avoid the malfunction. The other day, I forgot and hit rewind. this time when I got the message the tape would not eject. I took the cam to the local vendor. the tech was able to get my tape out, but he explained that the videohead drum was not spinning up and so the camera was shutting down. The cam is on its way back to Canon.

I am seriously thinking of upgrading to the GL2, but I admit this thread now has me worried!

Diane Bogosian · November 20th, 2003, 12:04 PM

As I mentioned earlier, this is a FAQ on the Canon website and ranked #2 (out of 20) for having the most hits. I'm sure there are other GL2 users out there who have never had a problem (which hit me and another poster around 6 months after using). If there is something the user is doing to cause this, I sure wish Canon would tell us! This concept of second-guessing, and troubleshooting, and starting websites to figure out glitches and bugs must be nirvana to manufacturers in that I rarely see them taking (or being asked to take) any responsibility for the malfunctions. Technology has taught us to not only expect it, but deal with it.

If there is a Canon Rep out there who can give us some insight, please post. Just to know Canon is working on it would be reassuring (since it doesn't seem to be an anomoly...)

Walter Scott · November 20th, 2003, 03:33 PM

From what I have read in this forum as well is from the info my local tech told me, the "eject" message can be caused by several different problems, not just a tape or transport related issue. I do wish they had designed more specific error trapping, even if it was just an error number displayed on the screen. But my point is that there may not be a single design issue causing this problem.

Another problem I've read about on multiple GL2s is the sticking zoom issue, which apparently they have issued a service bulletin for.

In spite of these problems, I have to say I am looking forward to owning a GL2! I'm going to order one as soon as we get back from a Thanksgiving trip.

Dirk Mitchell · November 21st, 2003, 07:31 AM

Walter,
I have found the GL2 an excellent camera despite my latest hiccup. Now I'm only comparing to my old JVC 1CCD consumer model (may it rest in peace), so how it compares to others in its class I do not know, but I am more than happy with its performance. You would think for 2 grand you could get a camera that didn't break. But every car I've owned has had some inherent flaw from the factory.

As to this latest REW problem, I have some info to add to it. Yesterday, as I was shuttling a tape back and forth to find a logging start point, I noticed a weird sound coming from the camera as I was rewinding at 1x or 2x speed with picture, almost like a high frequency vibration. The picture would blank out temporarily and then came the eject message. I'm beginning to think the tapes are not the issue and something is very wrong inside.

Diane has a good point when I suspected dirty tape heads from using different tapes: Why isn't the picture bad too with normal playback? Looks like I'll be sending it in while I have some downtime.

Walter Scott · November 21st, 2003, 07:49 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Dirk Mitchell : Walter,
I have found the GL2 an excellent camera despite my latest hiccup.

Good to hear that!

......
Diane has a good point when I suspected dirty tape heads from using different tapes:

why would using different brands of tape cause a problem? Ive read several posts that mention that. Seem to me I should be able to use any high quality name brand tape.

Honglin Sun · November 21st, 2003, 10:14 AM

Does anyone has some statistics on GL2 for the tape eject issue? But if it is listed as an FAQ on Canon's support web, I guess it may be at high percentage. What about other GL2 users? If you keep on using only one brand of tapes, do you still get such situation?

Ignacio Artiñano · November 24th, 2003, 04:53 PM

Pease add me to the "eject cassettte" list.

After one year of perfect behavior of that camcorder, now has began to show this mesage: "remove cassette" after a loss of time code (--.--.--.--)wile playing rewind function on VCR mode.

After the mesage appears, no action can be made but to eject the cassette and reinsert it again. Now all the funcions work fine except the rewind function on VCR mode.

I've made this test with difernt tape brands and the sane behavior.

Just to add that problems begun after ussing Sony Premiun, and change to JVC professional

Any sudgestion other than send tha cam. to the Canon support service?

Best to all

Ignacio

Dirk Mitchell · November 24th, 2003, 05:11 PM

Ignacio,

Are you getting this problem on a GL2 or an XM2? And did you get it after you used a Sony tape? Or is it that you used Sony tapes and switched to JVC's?

Walter Scott · November 24th, 2003, 06:55 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Ignacio Artiñano : Pease add me to the "eject cassettte" list.

After one year of perfect behavior of that camcorder, now has began to show this mesage: "remove cassette" after a loss of time code (--.--.--.--)wile playing rewind function on VCR mode.

After the mesage appears, no action can be made but to eject the cassette and reinsert it again. Now all the funcions work fine except the rewind function on VCR mode.

I've made this test with difernt tape brands and the sane behavior.

Well, as this is prety much exactly what happened to my Opturi, I will be able to tell you exactly what the deal is as soon as I hear from Cannon. I was using JVC tapes at the time.

Ignacio Artiñano · November 25th, 2003, 01:00 AM

Just three imputs.

My cam is XM2, as you know is the european versionof GL2.

I've beeen using Sony tapes during one year and now switched to JVC and at the first time I used it, the cam. start with the reported error message.

Just for curiosity, how long do you expect to be at Canon for fixing?

Please keep us informed because I'm planing to send it to Canon too.

Many thanks.

November 16th, 2003, 03:29 PM	#16
Dirk Mitchell New Boot Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Flowery Branch, GA Posts: 24	Diane, I'm starting to have the same problem. I've had my GL2 since March and this is the first problem I've had. I've been using mostly Panasonic tapes, but the last tape I had in the camera was a Sony. I'm having problems with the Panasonics, but I haven't tried others yet. Did you have to send your camera in for repairs? Did Canon tell you what was wrong? Thanks. __________________ -- Dirk Mitchell

November 17th, 2003, 07:01 AM	#19
Dirk Mitchell New Boot Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Flowery Branch, GA Posts: 24	Canon's FAQ answer doesn't sound like much to go on at this point. But I tend to think it is a tape issue because of the fact my last tape was a Sony and I hadn't used them up until now. I can just picture the wet lube interacting with the dry lube residue on the tape head left by other tapes. What would it be like? Baby powder mixed with baby oil? I don't know. Plus, my camera's been in some dry and dusty conditions this summer and now I'm back in Georgia; I'm sure it's a little dirty in there, more than the standard tape head cleaner can handle. Just a guess though. So when I rewind, if the tape goes longer than a few seconds without stopping, the timecode begins to flicker then it eventually gives an error. Fast forwarding hasn't given that result, but I haven't tested it too much. I want to hear the results of Diane's service call before I send my in because even though I know I will have to send the GL2 in eventually for a cleaning and "routine" maintenance, I'm wary because my other camera died a slow and unnecessary death in the hands of a supposedly knowledgeable service tech at a competing company. Diane, thanks for keeping us imformed. __________________ -- Dirk Mitchell

November 21st, 2003, 07:31 AM	#24
Dirk Mitchell New Boot Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Flowery Branch, GA Posts: 24	Walter, I have found the GL2 an excellent camera despite my latest hiccup. Now I'm only comparing to my old JVC 1CCD consumer model (may it rest in peace), so how it compares to others in its class I do not know, but I am more than happy with its performance. You would think for 2 grand you could get a camera that didn't break. But every car I've owned has had some inherent flaw from the factory. As to this latest REW problem, I have some info to add to it. Yesterday, as I was shuttling a tape back and forth to find a logging start point, I noticed a weird sound coming from the camera as I was rewinding at 1x or 2x speed with picture, almost like a high frequency vibration. The picture would blank out temporarily and then came the eject message. I'm beginning to think the tapes are not the issue and something is very wrong inside. Diane has a good point when I suspected dirty tape heads from using different tapes: Why isn't the picture bad too with normal playback? Looks like I'll be sending it in while I have some downtime. __________________ -- Dirk Mitchell

November 24th, 2003, 04:53 PM	#27
Ignacio Artiñano Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Madrid/Spain Posts: 44	Pease add me to the "eject cassettte" list. After one year of perfect behavior of that camcorder, now has began to show this mesage: "remove cassette" after a loss of time code (--.--.--.--)wile playing rewind function on VCR mode. After the mesage appears, no action can be made but to eject the cassette and reinsert it again. Now all the funcions work fine except the rewind function on VCR mode. I've made this test with difernt tape brands and the sane behavior. Just to add that problems begun after ussing Sony Premiun, and change to JVC professional Any sudgestion other than send tha cam. to the Canon support service? Best to all Ignacio __________________ Ignacio Artiñano

November 24th, 2003, 05:11 PM	#28
Dirk Mitchell New Boot Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Flowery Branch, GA Posts: 24	Ignacio, Are you getting this problem on a GL2 or an XM2? And did you get it after you used a Sony tape? Or is it that you used Sony tapes and switched to JVC's? __________________ -- Dirk Mitchell

November 17th, 2003, 12:01 AM	#17
Diane Bogosian Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 55	My camera is still "in the shop." Based on educated guesses from techs working counters at retail electronic shops (whose education I cannot vouch for) there is a chip responsible for the tape mechanism and they suspect that. My GL2 would give an "eject tape" notice after about 5 second of either a rewind or a fast forward 99.9% of the time. I had used the camera without incident for about 6 months (although I rarely used the GL2 to transfer images to the computer, so it was even SPOILED, never having to work really, really hard). Canon has a FAQ on this topic on their website. http://www.canondv.com/ciw/ppg/gl2.html. Our issue is ranked #2 in the top 20 FAQ (ranked by hits, I believe) Let me save you the trouble of navigating the website. Here is the complete response to: "If the message "REMOVE THE CASSETTE" or "EJECT" appears on the screen..." Category : Difficulties with camcorder operation Description : Videocassette related trouble The lit "REMOVE THE CASSETTE" message or flashing "EJECT" message indicates the camcorder's safety mechanism has been activated and has found an internal problem. This means either the videocassette or the camcorder has developed a problem. Remove the videocassette and reinsert it or replace it with a different videocassette. If "REMOVE THE CASSETTE" or "EJECT" persists, seek assistance from a Canon Service Facility. It is my opinion that tape brand-related problems would not be a likely candidate for this type of malfunction (I can still record with the G2 and have had no image quality issues...I just have to take the tape out once I've shot and rewind it/review it on my Sony TRV17(!!). When my camera comes back, I will post any explanation Canon deigns to give me... Diane

November 17th, 2003, 12:56 AM	#18
Graham Bernard Old Boot Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: London UK Posts: 3,633	. . . . hmmmm . . this is beginning to feel like a "default" reset factory setting issue. We've all had this on many "chip/software" dependant widgets and gadgets . . Take out tape and restart? IMHO, this is similar to routing past a firmware thing. What does verybody else think? . .. oh deary me . .. Grazie

November 17th, 2003, 09:28 AM	#20
Diane Bogosian Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 55	Logical cause and effect reasoning should be your first route. If you're not experiencing consistent eject messages like I was, then certainly eliminate tape switching as a cause. Sending your camera in for repair is certainly a last resort. I went through the 'is it a tape issue" scenario first (and hoped it WAS the problem!) If using the Sony tape caused the problem, then I would reason that that the mechanism would still need some sort of cleaning (tape head cleaner?) to rectify that problem...there are many posts that advice on how to troubleshoot that. I am puzzled that manufacturers of both cameras and tapes do not mention switching brands as a potential problem in either their manuals or their websites. As much as it is discussed and accepted on a "real world" level, I have yet to run across this caution in manuals. It certainly would seem to be a responsible thing to discuss in a camera manual (along with warnings not to let a camera go through rapid temperature changes, etc etc) It also seems logical to me that, if brand-switching and lubs etc could damage a camera, the consequences would not be limited to rewinding/fast-forwarding, but would manifest itself in the recording and picture quality as well. That is, every aspect that is tape-dependent. That was my thinking. Your experience may be different. I was GRATEFUL that whatever problem was causing my rw/ff issues, it hadn't affected my ability to at least shoot quality images to tape. Keep us in touch re your situation as well, Dirk. If after cleaning your tape heads, etc. you no longer have an eject tape problem, it will be useful info for all of us in the future. Diane

November 20th, 2003, 07:43 AM	#21
Walter Scott Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Baton Rouge, LA Posts: 27	I can add to this, but the news is not good! I have a 2 year old Canon Opturi. Recently, whenever I would try to rewind the tape I would get the "Eject" message. Note that Fast forward, as well as fast forward and reverse search all worked fine. I bought a mini DV rewinder at Radio Shack to avoid the malfunction. The other day, I forgot and hit rewind. this time when I got the message the tape would not eject. I took the cam to the local vendor. the tech was able to get my tape out, but he explained that the videohead drum was not spinning up and so the camera was shutting down. The cam is on its way back to Canon. I am seriously thinking of upgrading to the GL2, but I admit this thread now has me worried!

November 20th, 2003, 12:04 PM	#22
Diane Bogosian Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 55	As I mentioned earlier, this is a FAQ on the Canon website and ranked #2 (out of 20) for having the most hits. I'm sure there are other GL2 users out there who have never had a problem (which hit me and another poster around 6 months after using). If there is something the user is doing to cause this, I sure wish Canon would tell us! This concept of second-guessing, and troubleshooting, and starting websites to figure out glitches and bugs must be nirvana to manufacturers in that I rarely see them taking (or being asked to take) any responsibility for the malfunctions. Technology has taught us to not only expect it, but deal with it. If there is a Canon Rep out there who can give us some insight, please post. Just to know Canon is working on it would be reassuring (since it doesn't seem to be an anomoly...)

November 20th, 2003, 03:33 PM	#23
Walter Scott Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Baton Rouge, LA Posts: 27	From what I have read in this forum as well is from the info my local tech told me, the "eject" message can be caused by several different problems, not just a tape or transport related issue. I do wish they had designed more specific error trapping, even if it was just an error number displayed on the screen. But my point is that there may not be a single design issue causing this problem. Another problem I've read about on multiple GL2s is the sticking zoom issue, which apparently they have issued a service bulletin for. In spite of these problems, I have to say I am looking forward to owning a GL2! I'm going to order one as soon as we get back from a Thanksgiving trip.

November 21st, 2003, 07:49 AM	#25
Walter Scott Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Baton Rouge, LA Posts: 27	<<<-- Originally posted by Dirk Mitchell : Walter, I have found the GL2 an excellent camera despite my latest hiccup. Good to hear that! ...... Diane has a good point when I suspected dirty tape heads from using different tapes: why would using different brands of tape cause a problem? Ive read several posts that mention that. Seem to me I should be able to use any high quality name brand tape.

November 21st, 2003, 10:14 AM	#26
Honglin Sun New Boot Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 18	Does anyone has some statistics on GL2 for the tape eject issue? But if it is listed as an FAQ on Canon's support web, I guess it may be at high percentage. What about other GL2 users? If you keep on using only one brand of tapes, do you still get such situation?

November 24th, 2003, 06:55 PM	#29
Walter Scott Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Baton Rouge, LA Posts: 27	<<<-- Originally posted by Ignacio Artiñano : Pease add me to the "eject cassettte" list. After one year of perfect behavior of that camcorder, now has began to show this mesage: "remove cassette" after a loss of time code (--.--.--.--)wile playing rewind function on VCR mode. After the mesage appears, no action can be made but to eject the cassette and reinsert it again. Now all the funcions work fine except the rewind function on VCR mode. I've made this test with difernt tape brands and the sane behavior. Well, as this is prety much exactly what happened to my Opturi, I will be able to tell you exactly what the deal is as soon as I hear from Cannon. I was using JVC tapes at the time.

November 25th, 2003, 01:00 AM	#30
Ignacio Artiñano Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Madrid/Spain Posts: 44	Just three imputs. My cam is XM2, as you know is the european versionof GL2. I've beeen using Sony tapes during one year and now switched to JVC and at the first time I used it, the cam. start with the reported error message. Just for curiosity, how long do you expect to be at Canon for fixing? Please keep us informed because I'm planing to send it to Canon too. Many thanks. __________________ Ignacio Artiñano