Wedding Video HORROR!

[Yow Siang]

Hi Jim,
For my case its super confusing..maybe after reading you can help me understand..
I used sony tapes when I FIRST BOUGHT the camera, that means there isnt any tape used pirior to that right? But the mosiac tiles appear after an hour of usage. I sent my camera to repair and canon service centre couldnt find the reason and couldnt repair it so that change a tape head for me. After which I use Pana and TDK tapes.. no problem.. till 8 months later I played a sony tape for downloading the video captured by a friend for editing pupose. on the second hour of playing the mosaic tiles appear, I sent it for repair they clean it and it seems okay.
AND FINALLY.... I did the wedding about 3 hours of tape recording .. when i brought home for editing i cant rewind try takiing the tape out and got it jammed the third time while trying to rewind it.. and I was still using Pana tapes.......

Its been the third day and my camera is still under servcing, and i am very sure that they couldnt fix my cam.. i wonder what are they going to do with this problem....

ys

[Frank Granovski]

Hmmm. I thought so. The old mixing tape brands/types thingy again.

http://www.dvfreak.com/tape.htm

[Trig Simon]

When i come to the problem when rewinding, and hit a bump like that, i put it on play, and rewind at the slower speed.

I have found that it is the changing of tape brand, the lubricants are different and they don't mix. They gum up the heads. So a cleaning when I see this happen usually fixes the problem.

COST? I sent my xl1s in for a look at, they replaced the head mechanism and did good cleaning. With my xl1s club (free) it cost me $269.00 plus shipping ($60.00) and got it back from the NJ service center in one week. Not bad.

[Jeff Price]

There are options for using two cameras for redundancy without having two cameras following the wedding party around.

One option is to use a second, small camera as a tape deck and wire the camera to it via a firewire cable. That way you are recording on two tapes at once. You can rig a pack and wear the second camera on a belt if need be. The problem is you have to remember to turn it on when you are filming (oops, taping).

The second option is to use one of the firewire direct to hard disk rigs. Sure, they cost a lot but if you can't take a chance on losing footage then they may be the way to go.

[Chris Mueller]

<<<-- Originally posted by Jason Casey : IF there is a very long section of tape that you think is twisted then you will probably have to take it apart and unthread the tape to see if it is twisted, then rewind it again. -->>>

(I don't mean to make another thread of this one, but just a short question that is related to the topic:)

Is it safe to take the tape apart myself? Or should I get it done professionally?

The tape is a Hi8 tape, and in all honesty I dont think it's important enough to warrant a trip to a pro house. If it's possible to do on my own, I'd like to try it.

[Steven Salmon]

Not sure on Hi8 but if taking apart a VHS tape is anything to go by then this is a real nightmare. The little leavers inside the tape are a real bugger when trying to put it back together. Fixing the actual tape was not the problem.

[Steven Salmon]

Continuing the discussion regarding the operating of another camera. I tried this but I found it really hard work and time consuming on the day. The only time I would see this working is when you have another camera operator. I find it hard enough carrying tripods, cases around with you all day.

Do most other two camera operations have another camera operator? The problem with this is of course it pushes the price up and it depends if the customer wants to pay extra for the added benefit.

[Trig Simon]

Go ahead and push the price up to the client. You are giving them more and they should expect to pay more. Don't forget to include the extra time to edit 2 cameras.

[Mark Newhouse]

I think this is a good way to "educate" your customers. You can have a couple of packages - a single camera shoot that is less expensive, and spells out what they can expect from that (limitations, etc.) and a two camera shoot that spells out the benefits and reasons they might go for the extra cost. I think this is called "upselling." :)

And then you can advertise "Packages starting at $XXX.xx"

But I am serious about the educating the customers part. Too many people think that just because they have a camcorder and MovieMaker they can do a "good enough" job and don't give the professionals the credit they are due. So a little education goes a long way for all of us.

Of course right now I'm probably a bit closer to the "I have a camcorder and MovieMaker" than a real professional, as I am just getting started in this. But I see the same issues arising in web design where I am a professional...

[Yow Siang]

my camera is back and the rewind works, but guess what.. now during PLAYBACK, mosaic tiles are all over whever there are fast movements played. The worst thing is the customer service keep accusing me of using old tapes whearas I am very sure I only used brand new 'just unwrapped tapes"..... and all they do is to do some clean up but when the camera is brought back it happens again....

what should I do?

yowsiang

[Graham Bernard]

I've had similar "symptoms" - this is no way MEANS that it is being caused by the SAME reason.

This is what I do: I FF and the REW. I'm now also considering in laying down BLACK timecode on all the tape length on all new tapes. I use SONY Premium tapes. Yes they are cheaper than, sometimes 1/3 of the more expensive tapes.

I really do understand that you are using NEW tapes. Apart from the FF and REW try using one of the "old" or previoulsy used tapes. See if this cures the problem.

Botom line here is that I've had these symptoms, but have addressed this situation by FF and REW, and I've had success. Okay. Now really look at the tiles and try and convincve yourself these actually DO happen in the exact same position. Load them into to any NLE and check out the TT where these are happeneing. Right this down on a piece of paper. Scrap this test. Restart, and recapture. Note the TT again where the Mosaic happens. Scrap and redo. If they do happen in exactly the postion, then yes - IMHO - I would say it is the tape at fault. Now, if the mosaic happens in different places then this points to the cammie OR the linkages into and onto your NLE.

The other thing is that this doesn't aquit the cammie from being the culprit. After all, something could have gone wrong on the original recording - yes? Now that's also a possibility. This would show that the recording procedure is going awry.

You see where I'm going with this?

Fast moving pixel problems haunted me about 2 months ago. doing the FF and REW appears to ave given me a at least an on the gorund solution. If this IS the case then all I can say it is a combination of the nature of miniDV, with its intrinsic need for exact mechanical fidelity; tapes that need to be in contact and in their own BEST condition and the whole route to and from the NLE being good enough for the process.

Look, we don't know how these tapes get stored. Are they too being looked after prior to our purchase? We don't know. As I understand it tapes SHOULD be stored on their edges. This I understand keeps the actual spooled tape "inline" with effect of graivty AND around the its own capstans. Storing tapes horizontally allows for the "potential" length of tape to form a very slight "helical" formation around the capstan. Then here we come and undo a NEW tape slip it into the gob of the cammie, and off we go! The cammie is now dealing with a lump of tape that has potentially an uneven "tension" do to this helical appearance of the tape. Now, I aint no tape technician, but this makes sense even to me. So, of we go and attempt to "use" this tape. The helical shape, of the wound tape inside the cassette, IMHO will present an uneven tension to the tape head. The tape could also be presenting an ever so slightly ANGLED interface with the head. Of course there must be some built in "tolerances" to allow for this. But if a whole box - say 5 miniDVs - had been stored in this "horizontal" position, then it will give you 5 hours of running WITH this effect. Okay, all this is oure conjecture on my part. All I'm doing is taking the same advice that is given for storing the wider and more robuster ANALOGUE big giant cousins of our beloved VHS tapes. You/I should also store these tapes on the Vertical edge and horizontally. Remeber, miniDV is mini because it is smaller. It also still a mechanical item. We need to apply all that we know to those things that are mechanical . . . miniturisation comes at a price . . . IMHO when getting to the "mechanicals" it becomes even more necessary. Bottom line here, IMHO if you want a robust system go full DV. Full DV tapes are bigger. the devices that deal with them are bigger and chunkier. The rollers and capstans and heads are larger. We all know of stories of people using full DV tapes time and time again. Heads not being cleaned at all. No tiles! This menas something. And yes, someone here will tell me they haven't had a problem with miniDV. Fine - for those of us who do and will - something NOT happenning isn't a full understanding of needing to rectify, after all, what is at least a very frustraing postion and maybe, at worst pissing off a client - yeah? This COULD lead to a trip to the lawyers!

Apologies if this has been discussed further up the thread here. If it hasn't and you haven't done this test - what have you got to loose but trying it out?

Oh nearly forgot! . . . . never ever LEAVE a tape in the cammie, engaged or not. Remove it at once! Put it in a box and store it vertically . . ;-)

Non of this may not be a cure. But the results I've had . . so far . . have . . . do pint in this general direction.

Regards,

Grazie

[Yow Siang]

Gotten my camera back again and canon changed the entire drum head the second time, but i got rather upset when they told me that the next time I change this I would be charged even if its still under warrenty!.. isnt that rediculous?

Anyway I forgot to mention the same tape that has tiles and mosaics on it plays perfectly on a JVC very low end dv cam.......

Hopefully I would have no problem with my XM2 anymore.. at least for another 2 years please...

ys

[Graham Bernard]

Ah! . . "Anyway I forgot to mention the same tape that has tiles and mosaics on it plays perfectly on a JVC very low end dv cam......." this points to the cammie at least recording the footage correctly! That's a BIG YES! . . okay, now you also have a "fall-back" postion of knowing that you CAN play back on another miniDV player. This is also the case for my VidPro friend. He can also take very badly pixelated footage and put it into his miniDV/Full DV deck and he can load the stuff without pesky pixels!

I'm sure it is all down to tape tension . . . . but hey! A new Head?!? Can't be bad . .

Happy filming,

Grazie

[Bob Harotunian]

Just a couple or thoughts. I never use our GL2s for RW, FF or editing but instead rely on a Sima tape rewinder. So far, no problems with the rewinder in over 1 year of use and no problems with the cameras. Also, I always use Sony Premium or Excellence tapes and have done so from day one. I also believe now that it is a good idea to unpack tapes (if that' s the right term) before using them. I found that most of our dropouts occured during the first and last minute of tape but that seems to be less of a problem now.

I'm also in the habit of slooowly and carefully sliding the tape in the camera and gently closing the compartment by squeezing the two sides together rather than pushing. I also try to make sure that the camera has fully completed closing the compartment before closing the cover. Call it an ounce of prevention or superstition.

With regard to taping live paid events with one camera. I don't think that's a good idea. We tape weddings and always use 2 cameras. I could not imagine explaining to the client why we didn't capture the ceremony because of a tape or camera failure.
Bob

[Graham Bernard]

I agree with everything you say Bob, apart from the tape rewinder. I have a VidPro chum has not had such a pleasurable experience ;-) . . But if it works for you, who am I to say.

The 2 camera thing? . . oh yesssss . . . absolutley!

I've learnt very recently that the actual cutting and gripping of the tape being placed into the cassette may create a problem.

Grazie