GL1 as Primary, VHS-C/Video 8 as secondary? at DVinfo.net

Zack Birlew · September 14th, 2003, 05:21 PM

Hi, I'm currently an owner of a Canon GL1 and I am currently writing up a script for my first movie on Final Draft. This will be my first indie film and due to my low budget, I am forced to use the GL1 and possibly two other cameras to get the job done. So far, for the GL1, I have gotten a $60 Wide Angle Lense and for it (along with a Telephoto lense and the usual filter bundle for a grand total of $120 off of eBay) and I have yet to get a Beachtek XLR adapter or microphones for it. My problem is this: I believe that if I wanted to use a multi-cam setup for making different shots and angles all at once, I would have to use my familie's old VHS-C camera and/or Sony Video 8 camera. Now the thing is that the Video 8 and VHS-C cameras don't look too far different when not shooting in the GL1's frame mode. I figured that I would only get the video footage from the Video 8 and VHS-C camera's and let the GL1 do the audio and main video but would this be ok? I know that I will probably get a reply advising me to rent an XL1S and mix the footage with the GL1 but you see that just isn't possible where I live because there are no video camera renting places around here <=P. I also worry about the lack of wide angle lenses for the two lower cameras, I'll have to work around that if I use them. I plan to use Magic Bullet 1.5 on the footage when I get it all edited and everything, would shooting in regular mode make a difference? My overall question is this, should I shoot with only the GL1 in frame mode or could I incorporate the other two cameras using regular mode on the GL1?

Alex Knappenberger · September 14th, 2003, 05:31 PM

Heh, you can do what you want, i'm not telling you what to do, but simply mixing video from a GL1 and video from a old analog camcorder, is going to look simply TERRIBLE. What kind of scenes do you really need to shoot multiple camera anyway? The only I can think of is one shot action scenes and explosions and stuff...

Zack Birlew · September 14th, 2003, 05:45 PM

Well, I was thinking about shooting things like distance shots, side shots, and different POV angles. I don't really know. I'm still writing the script so I may end up getting an XL2 to shoot the movie with ;), because so far I just have the first four pages and this is my third week. I have school and stuff too and I'm also using inspiration from my real life to use for the script, so it'll be awhile unless I'm really inspired, plus I'm still thinking up new things for it and making changes due to my budget (which is whatever my parents will let me have). No time for a job either so I'm stuck =P. But if I get a few more replies telling me not to use the old cameras then I'll just use the lone GL1 for shooting (unless I get an XL2 next summer ;D ).

Federico Dib · September 14th, 2003, 06:11 PM

Hi...
It´s not just the old cameras... one might even want that look for artistic reasons or whatever...

But I would advice against multi-camera for fiction unless completely necessary... and like Alex said, that would be only one-shot opportunity like explosions, or some difficult action secuences...

But for the most part if you want a long shot, a side shot, and an extreme close up shot of the same action-scene-dialog-watever... you do them separately...
Multi camera in fiction is a production nightmare...
First of all one lightining setup would most likely not fit all your shot.. and if you do.. then you are probably getting a very flat dull lighting... which is not good most of the times..

Second then you have to be extra carefull not to get cameras, crew, lights, poles, etc.. on each other shots...

Third you will need much more time to plan and setup everything...

Then you need one camera operator for each cam..
Then you have a lot more time of post production...
Then you can´t "fake" your spaces/sets..
And so on.

Even though it may seem easier to shoot multicam, It is not.
Write your script, plan your shots, then shoot according to you plan. One shot at a time.

Ask around, do some reading on how the pro´s do it and you´ll see why and when not to use multicamera...

Of course it all depends on what you are doing, so all of the above might not be your case...

Marco Leavitt · September 14th, 2003, 08:15 PM

I have to agree with the advice against using multiple cameras. It will just limit the angles of your shots (since you don't want the other cameras or operators in the frame) and the footage won't mix well at all. You have a GL1. You can get real good footage with that if you light it right. I'd just stick with that, and story board your shots.

Don Palomaki · September 15th, 2003, 03:49 AM

The old camera images, especially 8mm and VHS will never be a good match for the GL1. However, if you must use them, then be sure you have plenty of even lighting inmoderate contract scenes, and try avoid long/wide shots with the polder cameras. And plan to do color correction in post production to try match the images betterr to the GL1.

Zack Birlew · September 15th, 2003, 05:01 PM

All right. I guess you guys are right now that I think about it =). Thanks for the help! =D

September 14th, 2003, 05:21 PM	#1
Zack Birlew Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 613	GL1 as Primary, VHS-C/Video 8 as secondary? Hi, I'm currently an owner of a Canon GL1 and I am currently writing up a script for my first movie on Final Draft. This will be my first indie film and due to my low budget, I am forced to use the GL1 and possibly two other cameras to get the job done. So far, for the GL1, I have gotten a $60 Wide Angle Lense and for it (along with a Telephoto lense and the usual filter bundle for a grand total of $120 off of eBay) and I have yet to get a Beachtek XLR adapter or microphones for it. My problem is this: I believe that if I wanted to use a multi-cam setup for making different shots and angles all at once, I would have to use my familie's old VHS-C camera and/or Sony Video 8 camera. Now the thing is that the Video 8 and VHS-C cameras don't look too far different when not shooting in the GL1's frame mode. I figured that I would only get the video footage from the Video 8 and VHS-C camera's and let the GL1 do the audio and main video but would this be ok? I know that I will probably get a reply advising me to rent an XL1S and mix the footage with the GL1 but you see that just isn't possible where I live because there are no video camera renting places around here <=P. I also worry about the lack of wide angle lenses for the two lower cameras, I'll have to work around that if I use them. I plan to use Magic Bullet 1.5 on the footage when I get it all edited and everything, would shooting in regular mode make a difference? My overall question is this, should I shoot with only the GL1 in frame mode or could I incorporate the other two cameras using regular mode on the GL1? __________________ "Babs Do or Babs Do not, there is no try." - Zack Birlew www.BabsDoProductions.com

September 14th, 2003, 05:45 PM	#3
Zack Birlew Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 613	Well, I was thinking about shooting things like distance shots, side shots, and different POV angles. I don't really know. I'm still writing the script so I may end up getting an XL2 to shoot the movie with ;), because so far I just have the first four pages and this is my third week. I have school and stuff too and I'm also using inspiration from my real life to use for the script, so it'll be awhile unless I'm really inspired, plus I'm still thinking up new things for it and making changes due to my budget (which is whatever my parents will let me have). No time for a job either so I'm stuck =P. But if I get a few more replies telling me not to use the old cameras then I'll just use the lone GL1 for shooting (unless I get an XL2 next summer ;D ). __________________ "Babs Do or Babs Do not, there is no try." - Zack Birlew www.BabsDoProductions.com

September 14th, 2003, 06:11 PM	#4
Federico Dib Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Barcelona Posts: 312	Hi... It´s not just the old cameras... one might even want that look for artistic reasons or whatever... But I would advice against multi-camera for fiction unless completely necessary... and like Alex said, that would be only one-shot opportunity like explosions, or some difficult action secuences... But for the most part if you want a long shot, a side shot, and an extreme close up shot of the same action-scene-dialog-watever... you do them separately... Multi camera in fiction is a production nightmare... First of all one lightining setup would most likely not fit all your shot.. and if you do.. then you are probably getting a very flat dull lighting... which is not good most of the times.. Second then you have to be extra carefull not to get cameras, crew, lights, poles, etc.. on each other shots... Third you will need much more time to plan and setup everything... Then you need one camera operator for each cam.. Then you have a lot more time of post production... Then you can´t "fake" your spaces/sets.. And so on. Even though it may seem easier to shoot multicam, It is not. Write your script, plan your shots, then shoot according to you plan. One shot at a time. Ask around, do some reading on how the pro´s do it and you´ll see why and when not to use multicamera... Of course it all depends on what you are doing, so all of the above might not be your case... __________________ Messenger Boy : The Thessalonian you're fighting, he's the biggest man I've ever seen. I wouldn't want to fight him. Achilles : That is why no one will remember your name.

September 15th, 2003, 03:49 AM	#6
Don Palomaki Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Northern VA Posts: 4,489	The old camera images, especially 8mm and VHS will never be a good match for the GL1. However, if you must use them, then be sure you have plenty of even lighting inmoderate contract scenes, and try avoid long/wide shots with the polder cameras. And plan to do color correction in post production to try match the images betterr to the GL1. __________________ dpalomaki@dspalomaki.com

September 15th, 2003, 05:01 PM	#7
Zack Birlew Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 613	All right. I guess you guys are right now that I think about it =). Thanks for the help! =D __________________ "Babs Do or Babs Do not, there is no try." - Zack Birlew www.BabsDoProductions.com

September 14th, 2003, 05:31 PM	#2
Alex Knappenberger High School Student Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Canton, Ohio, USA Posts: 609	Heh, you can do what you want, i'm not telling you what to do, but simply mixing video from a GL1 and video from a old analog camcorder, is going to look simply TERRIBLE. What kind of scenes do you really need to shoot multiple camera anyway? The only I can think of is one shot action scenes and explosions and stuff...

September 14th, 2003, 08:15 PM	#5
Marco Leavitt Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Albany, NY 12210 Posts: 2,652	I have to agree with the advice against using multiple cameras. It will just limit the angles of your shots (since you don't want the other cameras or operators in the frame) and the footage won't mix well at all. You have a GL1. You can get real good footage with that if you light it right. I'd just stick with that, and story board your shots.