a few about the ND filter ? at DVinfo.net

Federico Dib · July 10th, 2003, 11:02 AM

1.- What would be the amount of ND in the XM-2 (Gl2).
That is.. when you buy filters (like cokin) they say ND2-ND4-ND6...
How much NDing(?) does this filter has...?
-This one is because I might need to buy an external ND and I want to buy a different amount so I can have 3 levels of ND..

2.- And is this ND filter a real filter (that is optical)? or is it some kind of digital thing?
-This one is just curioisity to know a bit more about how things work on my cam....

(sorry about the "things" and "stuffs" just don´t know the proper terms in english)...

By the way I want to congratulate this forum.. I´ve been coming for a long time... most of my adquisitions have been made after advices and info I´ve read here...
I never posted (or registered) before because all the questions i´ve had (a lot of them) where allways asked and answered before... and about the answers I´ve had (very few) were allways also here.... so this forum is so great that during the last year i didn´t had the need to ask or post anything...

Thanks for all your help

Joe Sacher · July 10th, 2003, 11:50 AM

The best I could figure out when purchasing my GL2 is that the ND filter is equivalent to ND-3 or 4. It is also digital, not an actual piece of glass. I purchased a ND-6 to give me the three settings idea that you talked about. (One of those great minds things. :)

Mike Ostracky · July 10th, 2003, 12:17 PM

No, no, no... It is NOT digital ! It is optical ! You want to see it - turn the XM2 towards the light source and look at the lens, look carefully - now while looking turn on the ND filter - wow, a piece of glass comes into place right in front of your eyes :) Yeeey.

You also hear a short "click".

So, it is optical, and it is great ;)

Enjoy.

Tom Hardwick · July 10th, 2003, 12:19 PM

The GL2 I looked at had an actual ND filter that flicked into place when you mechanically moved the switch. It's a small piece of gelatin and absorbs in the region of two stops so it's an ND4. I agree with you though that more is needed, and an ND8 (that absorbs three stops) will be a very useful accessory. You want to keep well away from the resolution robbing diffraction effects of shooting at amall apertures, and upping the shutter speed is *not* the way to go.

tom.

Federico Dib · July 10th, 2003, 02:05 PM

Ok, yes.. I saw the filter.. it´s there. I missed it the first time I tried that...

Now... any suggestion or opinions on a particular brand of filters?

I´ve thought about a filter system like (cokin) since I´m planning on doing some experiments with a couple of filters at a time... and the Cokin´s are not expenssive... although they look "cheap"... are they?

I really need to be able to put at least two filters at a time. Can it be done with regular circular screw-in filters.. ?

Thanx again

Joe Sacher · July 10th, 2003, 02:26 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Mike Ostracky : No, no, no... It is NOT digital ! It is optical ! You want to see it - turn the XM2 towards the light source and look at the lens, look carefully - now while looking turn on the ND filter - wow, a piece of glass comes into place right in front of your eyes :) Yeeey.

You also hear a short "click".

So, it is optical, and it is great ;). -->>>

That is good to know. When I was ordering the camera from Zotz, I was told that it was a digital filter. I figured the click was the apeture reseting along with whatever digital thing goes on. I now feel much less guilty for using the on board ND filter, instead of screwing on the external one. :)

Tom Hardwick · July 10th, 2003, 02:41 PM

Cokin are ok, but they're not coated and they're not glass. But that doesn't matter these days.

I wouldn't stack filters if I were you. Each filter has two reflecting surfaces and two dust collecting surfaces and stacking them increases the chance of vignetting the image when you go wide.

Remember than neutral density filters should be neutral - i.e. not alter the colours in any way. I bought a cheap set once and regretted it - they turned everything deep purple. Hey - good name for a rock band, huh?

tom.

David Martin · July 10th, 2003, 04:56 PM

Cokin ND's are NOT true neutral. They actually lend a hint of grey to the image. I would NOT recommend buying Cokin. Buy Tiffen, Hoya, B+W, something respectable. As for scratching, Cokin filters are made out of CR39 resin...the same stuff many eye glasses are made out of, so consider how easily, or not, your eye glasses scratch when considering how easily, or not a plastic filter will scratch. Singh-Ray filters are plastic. So are Lee.

IMO, stacking is fine. Worry about vignetting depending upon how many filters you stack and how wide you are shooting. Also, remember, LESS IS MORE. The more filters you stack, the more glass you are adding in front of the lens, that is more than likely not as high a quality as the lens and increases the odds of decreasing the over-all quality of your image. One or two filters, though, shouldn't be a problem. Keep your filters clean and you shouldn't have a dust problem. If you're concerned about glare, buy coated filters. Personally, I don't think it's necessary to pay extra for coated filters, personal preference. When you go to the movies and watch a film on the big screen you don't see glare, etc problems caused by filters, and, many major motion pictures are shot with uncoated Tiffen filters.

Federico Dib · July 10th, 2003, 08:16 PM

Thanks for the info on the cokins and other stuff...
I don´t plan on stacking a lot of filters... at least not most of the times.. so dust won´t be a problem... (maybe vignetting could)...

I just want to make some experiments for "art" stuff and I just hate rendering.. (my PC is too slow). So "perfection" in image quality won´t be the first issue here.. Also It´s kind of a self-challenge to try to get effects I like without any hardcore postpro manipulation...

Most of the time when I shoot "normal" stuff I´ll just play with the ND for bright sunlight and for reducing DOF... For evreything else the XM2 is just a great cam for me...

So I think I´ll buy a good (maybe Tiffen) ND... and do the experiments with the cam setup.. and later on see If I really should spend some money on Cokins for experiment... (or just put some colored gel on front of the lens)....

I´d also check other posts to see if anyone else is experimenting with their cam....

July 10th, 2003, 11:02 AM	#1
Federico Dib Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Barcelona Posts: 312	a few about the ND filter ? 1.- What would be the amount of ND in the XM-2 (Gl2). That is.. when you buy filters (like cokin) they say ND2-ND4-ND6... How much NDing(?) does this filter has...? -This one is because I might need to buy an external ND and I want to buy a different amount so I can have 3 levels of ND.. 2.- And is this ND filter a real filter (that is optical)? or is it some kind of digital thing? -This one is just curioisity to know a bit more about how things work on my cam.... (sorry about the "things" and "stuffs" just don´t know the proper terms in english)... By the way I want to congratulate this forum.. I´ve been coming for a long time... most of my adquisitions have been made after advices and info I´ve read here... I never posted (or registered) before because all the questions i´ve had (a lot of them) where allways asked and answered before... and about the answers I´ve had (very few) were allways also here.... so this forum is so great that during the last year i didn´t had the need to ask or post anything... Thanks for all your help

July 10th, 2003, 12:17 PM	#3
Mike Ostracky Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 30	It is actually optical ! No, no, no... It is NOT digital ! It is optical ! You want to see it - turn the XM2 towards the light source and look at the lens, look carefully - now while looking turn on the ND filter - wow, a piece of glass comes into place right in front of your eyes :) Yeeey. You also hear a short "click". So, it is optical, and it is great ;) Enjoy.

July 10th, 2003, 02:26 PM	#6
Joe Sacher Regular Crew Join Date: May 2003 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 177	Re: It is actually optical ! <<<-- Originally posted by Mike Ostracky : No, no, no... It is NOT digital ! It is optical ! You want to see it - turn the XM2 towards the light source and look at the lens, look carefully - now while looking turn on the ND filter - wow, a piece of glass comes into place right in front of your eyes :) Yeeey. You also hear a short "click". So, it is optical, and it is great ;). -->>> That is good to know. When I was ordering the camera from Zotz, I was told that it was a digital filter. I figured the click was the apeture reseting along with whatever digital thing goes on. I now feel much less guilty for using the on board ND filter, instead of screwing on the external one. :)

July 10th, 2003, 04:56 PM	#8
David Martin New Boot Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 17	Cokin ND's are NOT true neutral. Cokin ND's are NOT true neutral. They actually lend a hint of grey to the image. I would NOT recommend buying Cokin. Buy Tiffen, Hoya, B+W, something respectable. As for scratching, Cokin filters are made out of CR39 resin...the same stuff many eye glasses are made out of, so consider how easily, or not, your eye glasses scratch when considering how easily, or not a plastic filter will scratch. Singh-Ray filters are plastic. So are Lee. IMO, stacking is fine. Worry about vignetting depending upon how many filters you stack and how wide you are shooting. Also, remember, LESS IS MORE. The more filters you stack, the more glass you are adding in front of the lens, that is more than likely not as high a quality as the lens and increases the odds of decreasing the over-all quality of your image. One or two filters, though, shouldn't be a problem. Keep your filters clean and you shouldn't have a dust problem. If you're concerned about glare, buy coated filters. Personally, I don't think it's necessary to pay extra for coated filters, personal preference. When you go to the movies and watch a film on the big screen you don't see glare, etc problems caused by filters, and, many major motion pictures are shot with uncoated Tiffen filters.

July 10th, 2003, 11:50 AM	#2
Joe Sacher Regular Crew Join Date: May 2003 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 177	The best I could figure out when purchasing my GL2 is that the ND filter is equivalent to ND-3 or 4. It is also digital, not an actual piece of glass. I purchased a ND-6 to give me the three settings idea that you talked about. (One of those great minds things. :)

July 10th, 2003, 12:19 PM	#4
Tom Hardwick Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Billericay, England UK Posts: 4,711	The GL2 I looked at had an actual ND filter that flicked into place when you mechanically moved the switch. It's a small piece of gelatin and absorbs in the region of two stops so it's an ND4. I agree with you though that more is needed, and an ND8 (that absorbs three stops) will be a very useful accessory. You want to keep well away from the resolution robbing diffraction effects of shooting at amall apertures, and upping the shutter speed is not the way to go. tom.

July 10th, 2003, 02:05 PM	#5
Federico Dib Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Barcelona Posts: 312	Ok, yes.. I saw the filter.. it´s there. I missed it the first time I tried that... Now... any suggestion or opinions on a particular brand of filters? I´ve thought about a filter system like (cokin) since I´m planning on doing some experiments with a couple of filters at a time... and the Cokin´s are not expenssive... although they look "cheap"... are they? I really need to be able to put at least two filters at a time. Can it be done with regular circular screw-in filters.. ? Thanx again

July 10th, 2003, 02:41 PM	#7
Tom Hardwick Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Billericay, England UK Posts: 4,711	Cokin are ok, but they're not coated and they're not glass. But that doesn't matter these days. I wouldn't stack filters if I were you. Each filter has two reflecting surfaces and two dust collecting surfaces and stacking them increases the chance of vignetting the image when you go wide. Remember than neutral density filters should be neutral - i.e. not alter the colours in any way. I bought a cheap set once and regretted it - they turned everything deep purple. Hey - good name for a rock band, huh? tom.

July 10th, 2003, 08:16 PM	#9
Federico Dib Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Barcelona Posts: 312	Thanks for the info on the cokins and other stuff... I don´t plan on stacking a lot of filters... at least not most of the times.. so dust won´t be a problem... (maybe vignetting could)... I just want to make some experiments for "art" stuff and I just hate rendering.. (my PC is too slow). So "perfection" in image quality won´t be the first issue here.. Also It´s kind of a self-challenge to try to get effects I like without any hardcore postpro manipulation... Most of the time when I shoot "normal" stuff I´ll just play with the ND for bright sunlight and for reducing DOF... For evreything else the XM2 is just a great cam for me... So I think I´ll buy a good (maybe Tiffen) ND... and do the experiments with the cam setup.. and later on see If I really should spend some money on Cokins for experiment... (or just put some colored gel on front of the lens).... I´d also check other posts to see if anyone else is experimenting with their cam....