XLR Adaptor Question...

Peter Moore · November 11th, 2003, 03:22 PM

Ok thanks Ken. I think I'm just gonna get a hard disk recorder then. It doesn't seem worth it if it's gonna get converted to unbalanced line-level before entering the camera.

Bobby Abernathy · November 11th, 2003, 06:51 PM

Just my .02, it's hard to beat a dedicated audio recorder. I just bought myself a GL2 and have been trying to justify buying the beachtek or some other similar adapter. I have a Roland 1680 and have been using it instead of the camera inputs for audio recording. Works great, and there is much more flexibility in it than any adaptor for a camera.

I would love to have a nice audio system sometime to mount onto my GL2, but at the same time, I think, why? Why should I rely on the audio circutry in the camera when I already have a good audio recorder? It's too easy to sync up in post and really isn't more involved in setting up than the camera.

Dragging one more case to the gig is worth the convenience of no wires tied to my camera, plus knowing my audio will sound good.

Will Fastie · November 13th, 2003, 09:23 AM

Whew! The 1680 is no longer available. Roland says the VS-1824CD is its replacement. With a list of $2000, about $1700 street, it's a big investment.

Will

Bobby Abernathy · November 13th, 2003, 10:11 AM

Yes, it was quite an investment a few years ago, considering I spent about $2300 on it (yikes!) - But it has definitely paid for itself in the quality of audio and convenience. My buddy just picked up a Yamaha recorder similar to my Roland for about $1000.

I forget what the technique is called when you record the audio to a seperate recorder, but I do think it is the way to go.

Will Fastie · November 13th, 2003, 10:45 AM

Yes, I saw the Yamaha models when I went browsing to research your comments. The Yamaha AW16G is certainly close.

Why do you think the independent audio recording is better? You mention better quality, but assuming the same microphones were used and that the only difference is where the audio is recorded, it's a bit hard to grasp why two digital audio streams would be that different.

Will

Brian M. Dickman · November 13th, 2003, 10:56 AM

Will: To answer that question, go find Jay Rose's feature article from DV mag/.com titled "DV Camera Audio: Real Numbers, Real Recommendations".

Edit: Here's the link to the article, although you'll need to login to DV.com first if you haven't.

http://www.dv.com/features/features_...questid=694010

The short of it: DV camera audio circuits really are pretty crappy, even compared to just a "consumer" level audio device like an MD recorder. From my perspective, I'd say it depends on what you're recording; I'm not going to futz with syncing (and often re-syncing 20 minutes down the tape, since they don't always stay exactly in sync) a separate audio source to video if the audio isn't as important (just someone's speech or atmospheric audio). If the audio quality really is important, a separate source is very reasonable.

Bobby Abernathy · November 13th, 2003, 11:02 AM

Brian pretty much summed it up. I figure, a video camera is primarily composed to record video. The audio circuitry in most cameras leave much to be desired. My audio recorder was designed just for that, recording audio.

I agree, some shoots don't warrant a seperate recorder. But some critical shoots, like weddings, for example, the audio is obviously critical.

I have yet to do an A/B test between my Roland and my GL2, but my betting money would go toward the Roland (or any stand-alone audio recorder, for that matter).

Peter Moore · November 13th, 2003, 12:33 PM

Anyone use the Roland VS-880EX? I think I'm gonna get that with a Jaz drive. 20-bit 48 KHz recording, up to 8 tracks simultaneously - definitely the best features for the value.

Will Fastie · November 13th, 2003, 12:42 PM

You know, I read that article but had forgotten about it. Thanks for the reminder.

Will

Peter Moore · November 18th, 2003, 01:27 PM

Just bought a Roland VS-880EX off ebay for $350 - 6-tracks simultaenous balanced audio recording to any SCSI device. Way better than any XLR converter I could have gotten for the GL2. Too bad they don't make these things anymore - from the sound of it, it's going to be great (48 KHz, 20-bit, etc.)

Boyd Ostroff · November 18th, 2003, 02:01 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Brian Dickman : go find Jay Rose's feature article from DV mag -->>>

Thanks a lot for that link Brian, fascinating article that I hadn't stumbled across before!

Bobby Abernathy · November 18th, 2003, 02:25 PM

Have fun with that 880 Peter. Those things rock. I wish they had more XLR inputs, but hey, I'm not complaining too much. My 1680 has been a great friend for the past several years... :)

Peter Moore · November 18th, 2003, 04:23 PM

Yeah can't wait. :) Unfortunately this model does not have XLR inputs, only balanced 1/4" ones, but adapters are not terribly expensive, and I don't think this should significantly affect sound quality, do you?

Bobby Abernathy · November 18th, 2003, 06:38 PM

Yeah, you're right. But I guess they'd sound about the same as long as you use balanced cables, which do make a difference. Some adaptors can be found cheap, but may make your audio sound cheap as well, but ymmv.

Peter Moore · November 18th, 2003, 09:31 PM

Sorry that this has become a thread in audio engineering, but it's interesting. :)

My understanding is that all XLR cables are capable of carrying a balanced signal.

I also thought that a balanced 1/4"-connector cable is identical to an unbalanced stereo 1/4" cable.

Am I right or missing something?

Thanks a lot.

November 11th, 2003, 03:22 PM	#91
Peter Moore Trustee Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Arlington VA Posts: 1,034	Ok thanks Ken. I think I'm just gonna get a hard disk recorder then. It doesn't seem worth it if it's gonna get converted to unbalanced line-level before entering the camera.

November 11th, 2003, 06:51 PM	#92
Bobby Abernathy Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Aubrey, TX Posts: 80	Just my .02, it's hard to beat a dedicated audio recorder. I just bought myself a GL2 and have been trying to justify buying the beachtek or some other similar adapter. I have a Roland 1680 and have been using it instead of the camera inputs for audio recording. Works great, and there is much more flexibility in it than any adaptor for a camera. I would love to have a nice audio system sometime to mount onto my GL2, but at the same time, I think, why? Why should I rely on the audio circutry in the camera when I already have a good audio recorder? It's too easy to sync up in post and really isn't more involved in setting up than the camera. Dragging one more case to the gig is worth the convenience of no wires tied to my camera, plus knowing my audio will sound good.

November 13th, 2003, 09:23 AM	#93
Will Fastie Major Player Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Jarrettsville, MD Posts: 353	Whew! The 1680 is no longer available. Roland says the VS-1824CD is its replacement. With a list of $2000, about $1700 street, it's a big investment. Will

November 13th, 2003, 10:11 AM	#94
Bobby Abernathy Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Aubrey, TX Posts: 80	Yes, it was quite an investment a few years ago, considering I spent about $2300 on it (yikes!) - But it has definitely paid for itself in the quality of audio and convenience. My buddy just picked up a Yamaha recorder similar to my Roland for about $1000. I forget what the technique is called when you record the audio to a seperate recorder, but I do think it is the way to go.

November 13th, 2003, 10:45 AM	#95
Will Fastie Major Player Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Jarrettsville, MD Posts: 353	Yes, I saw the Yamaha models when I went browsing to research your comments. The Yamaha AW16G is certainly close. Why do you think the independent audio recording is better? You mention better quality, but assuming the same microphones were used and that the only difference is where the audio is recorded, it's a bit hard to grasp why two digital audio streams would be that different. Will

November 13th, 2003, 10:56 AM	#96
Brian M. Dickman Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 148	Will: To answer that question, go find Jay Rose's feature article from DV mag/.com titled "DV Camera Audio: Real Numbers, Real Recommendations". Edit: Here's the link to the article, although you'll need to login to DV.com first if you haven't. http://www.dv.com/features/features_...questid=694010 The short of it: DV camera audio circuits really are pretty crappy, even compared to just a "consumer" level audio device like an MD recorder. From my perspective, I'd say it depends on what you're recording; I'm not going to futz with syncing (and often re-syncing 20 minutes down the tape, since they don't always stay exactly in sync) a separate audio source to video if the audio isn't as important (just someone's speech or atmospheric audio). If the audio quality really is important, a separate source is very reasonable.

November 13th, 2003, 11:02 AM	#97
Bobby Abernathy Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Aubrey, TX Posts: 80	Brian pretty much summed it up. I figure, a video camera is primarily composed to record video. The audio circuitry in most cameras leave much to be desired. My audio recorder was designed just for that, recording audio. I agree, some shoots don't warrant a seperate recorder. But some critical shoots, like weddings, for example, the audio is obviously critical. I have yet to do an A/B test between my Roland and my GL2, but my betting money would go toward the Roland (or any stand-alone audio recorder, for that matter).

November 13th, 2003, 12:33 PM	#98
Peter Moore Trustee Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Arlington VA Posts: 1,034	Anyone use the Roland VS-880EX? I think I'm gonna get that with a Jaz drive. 20-bit 48 KHz recording, up to 8 tracks simultaneously - definitely the best features for the value.

November 13th, 2003, 12:42 PM	#99
Will Fastie Major Player Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Jarrettsville, MD Posts: 353	You know, I read that article but had forgotten about it. Thanks for the reminder. Will

November 18th, 2003, 01:27 PM	#100
Peter Moore Trustee Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Arlington VA Posts: 1,034	Just bought a Roland VS-880EX off ebay for $350 - 6-tracks simultaenous balanced audio recording to any SCSI device. Way better than any XLR converter I could have gotten for the GL2. Too bad they don't make these things anymore - from the sound of it, it's going to be great (48 KHz, 20-bit, etc.)

November 18th, 2003, 02:01 PM	#101
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,802	<<<-- Originally posted by Brian Dickman : go find Jay Rose's feature article from DV mag -->>> Thanks a lot for that link Brian, fascinating article that I hadn't stumbled across before!

November 18th, 2003, 02:25 PM	#102
Bobby Abernathy Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Aubrey, TX Posts: 80	Have fun with that 880 Peter. Those things rock. I wish they had more XLR inputs, but hey, I'm not complaining too much. My 1680 has been a great friend for the past several years... :)

November 18th, 2003, 04:23 PM	#103
Peter Moore Trustee Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Arlington VA Posts: 1,034	Yeah can't wait. :) Unfortunately this model does not have XLR inputs, only balanced 1/4" ones, but adapters are not terribly expensive, and I don't think this should significantly affect sound quality, do you?

November 18th, 2003, 06:38 PM	#104
Bobby Abernathy Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Aubrey, TX Posts: 80	Yeah, you're right. But I guess they'd sound about the same as long as you use balanced cables, which do make a difference. Some adaptors can be found cheap, but may make your audio sound cheap as well, but ymmv.

November 18th, 2003, 09:31 PM	#105
Peter Moore Trustee Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Arlington VA Posts: 1,034	Sorry that this has become a thread in audio engineering, but it's interesting. :) My understanding is that all XLR cables are capable of carrying a balanced signal. I also thought that a balanced 1/4"-connector cable is identical to an unbalanced stereo 1/4" cable. Am I right or missing something? Thanks a lot.