5Dmk11 & H4N Zoom at DVinfo.net

Kendal Kempsey · January 10th, 2013, 08:40 AM

I use the 5Dmk11 and Zoom H4N shooting mostly documentary films. I normally sync my footage myself in FCP no problems and the broadcaster has played rushes out onto their server for Avid edit.

More recently they have been using post facilities who just want the audio/video files. They've managed to convert & sync so far, but there is always confusion as they don't know the rushes.

I know you can set 'Time Of Day' in Metadata on 5D, I think you can do the same on the H4N with an update. I just wondered how this works in an FCP/Avid edit as the Timecode will still start 00.00.00?
Is there anything else I can do to make it easier?

---

My file structure is always clear (Project - Video/Audio - Date - Card No) but I want to make the process easier for them.

I sync clap at the start of IV but can't every 12 mins in a sensitive 1hr interview.
I stop/ start record on questions but leave audio running for duration (so I don't lose anything crucial)
I don't record audio for GV's/ cutaways.

Thanks

John Carroll · January 10th, 2013, 10:02 AM

I have a Mark III, not a Mark II, but I had similar thinking about using time of day to help simplify matching audio and video clips. But using the TOD timecode feature created serious problems in Log and Transfer in FCP. It's been a while so I can't remember details, but I did have to abandon that idea because I couldn't use L&T because of it.

I posted something here about it when it happened. I'll go look and see if I can find the original post...
If you don't rely on Log and Transfer, it may not be an issue for you... but thought I would mention it.

The Mark III actually records pretty decent audio so I don't use my zoom much any more. Not as good as the Zoom, but plenty usable.

John Carroll · January 10th, 2013, 10:19 AM

Here's a link to the orignal post I mentioned above:
http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/canon-eo...-transfer.html

Don't know if this would affect you or not, but might save you some aggravation.

One thing you might try is just getting an audio slate from the sound guy recorded to the scratch audio track to camera. Before you give your action que, he can just say "this is audio take number XXX"... I make audio notes on the camera-recorded scratch track all the time to help myself out in the edit.

You wouldn't even have to do it every time. just at the beginning of a series. Once you find your place it should be easy to keep track of things especially if audio and video are cutting at the same frequency.

Low-tech for sure, but it might be enough...
I'll be watching this thread because I'll be interested if there is a better way too!

Good luck!

Kendal Kempsey · January 11th, 2013, 01:33 PM

Thanks John,

I may have to do some more research as I think the 'free run & 'rec run' option isn't available as an update on 5Dmk11, just as standard on mk111.

I think the 'lo-tech' method of audio notes may do for now. My problem shooting docs is that most of my sync audio is interviews, and I don't want to clap/ cut audio at a sensitive/ inappropriate moment.

But I also don't want to cause headaches for the editors with timecode issues.

If you hear anything new, let me know.

Thanks again

John Carroll · January 11th, 2013, 01:53 PM

Exactly... you don't want to disrupt momentum or make "real people" feel any more nervous by clapping every single take. I usually try to just slate the very beginning of a series rather than each take. I usually don't even use a clap either if possible. When you are recording scratch tracks onto the camera, it's usually good enough to just compare the waveforms of the camera audio and the zoom audio to get the proper sync.

I've heard really good things about Plural Eyes too. Never personally used it, but know plenty of folks who have and really like it. I believe a new version is about to be (or has been) released.

Evan Donn · January 11th, 2013, 02:03 PM

I'd definitely recommend looking into Pluraleyes, I've been using it for years now in interview situations and it does a great job of syncing multiple video clips to a single long audio track for an interview, with no need to slate shots and no worry about starting/stopping the camera as needed. Also works well if you've got multiple cameras to sync everything together. The newest version can be run as a standalone app to sync everything before bringing it into whichever editing system you prefer.

January 10th, 2013, 08:40 AM	#1
Kendal Kempsey Tourist Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: London Posts: 2	5Dmk11 & H4N Zoom I use the 5Dmk11 and Zoom H4N shooting mostly documentary films. I normally sync my footage myself in FCP no problems and the broadcaster has played rushes out onto their server for Avid edit. More recently they have been using post facilities who just want the audio/video files. They've managed to convert & sync so far, but there is always confusion as they don't know the rushes. I know you can set 'Time Of Day' in Metadata on 5D, I think you can do the same on the H4N with an update. I just wondered how this works in an FCP/Avid edit as the Timecode will still start 00.00.00? Is there anything else I can do to make it easier? --- My file structure is always clear (Project - Video/Audio - Date - Card No) but I want to make the process easier for them. I sync clap at the start of IV but can't every 12 mins in a sensitive 1hr interview. I stop/ start record on questions but leave audio running for duration (so I don't lose anything crucial) I don't record audio for GV's/ cutaways. Thanks

January 10th, 2013, 10:02 AM	#2
John Carroll Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 156	Re: 5Dmk11 & H4N Zoom I have a Mark III, not a Mark II, but I had similar thinking about using time of day to help simplify matching audio and video clips. But using the TOD timecode feature created serious problems in Log and Transfer in FCP. It's been a while so I can't remember details, but I did have to abandon that idea because I couldn't use L&T because of it. I posted something here about it when it happened. I'll go look and see if I can find the original post... If you don't rely on Log and Transfer, it may not be an issue for you... but thought I would mention it. The Mark III actually records pretty decent audio so I don't use my zoom much any more. Not as good as the Zoom, but plenty usable.

January 10th, 2013, 10:19 AM	#3
John Carroll Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 156	Re: 5Dmk11 & H4N Zoom Here's a link to the orignal post I mentioned above: http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/canon-eo...-transfer.html Don't know if this would affect you or not, but might save you some aggravation. One thing you might try is just getting an audio slate from the sound guy recorded to the scratch audio track to camera. Before you give your action que, he can just say "this is audio take number XXX"... I make audio notes on the camera-recorded scratch track all the time to help myself out in the edit. You wouldn't even have to do it every time. just at the beginning of a series. Once you find your place it should be easy to keep track of things especially if audio and video are cutting at the same frequency. Low-tech for sure, but it might be enough... I'll be watching this thread because I'll be interested if there is a better way too! Good luck!

January 11th, 2013, 01:33 PM	#4
Kendal Kempsey Tourist Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: London Posts: 2	Re: 5Dmk11 & H4N Zoom Thanks John, I may have to do some more research as I think the 'free run & 'rec run' option isn't available as an update on 5Dmk11, just as standard on mk111. I think the 'lo-tech' method of audio notes may do for now. My problem shooting docs is that most of my sync audio is interviews, and I don't want to clap/ cut audio at a sensitive/ inappropriate moment. But I also don't want to cause headaches for the editors with timecode issues. If you hear anything new, let me know. Thanks again

January 11th, 2013, 01:53 PM	#5
John Carroll Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 156	Re: 5Dmk11 & H4N Zoom Exactly... you don't want to disrupt momentum or make "real people" feel any more nervous by clapping every single take. I usually try to just slate the very beginning of a series rather than each take. I usually don't even use a clap either if possible. When you are recording scratch tracks onto the camera, it's usually good enough to just compare the waveforms of the camera audio and the zoom audio to get the proper sync. I've heard really good things about Plural Eyes too. Never personally used it, but know plenty of folks who have and really like it. I believe a new version is about to be (or has been) released.

January 11th, 2013, 02:03 PM	#6
Evan Donn Major Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 795	Re: 5Dmk11 & H4N Zoom I'd definitely recommend looking into Pluraleyes, I've been using it for years now in interview situations and it does a great job of syncing multiple video clips to a single long audio track for an interview, with no need to slate shots and no worry about starting/stopping the camera as needed. Also works well if you've got multiple cameras to sync everything together. The newest version can be run as a standalone app to sync everything before bringing it into whichever editing system you prefer. __________________ My latest short documentary: "Four Pauls: Bring the Hat Back!"