5D Mk. III vs Nikon D800 - resolution, ISO, rolling shutter and more

Tony Davies-Patrick · April 13th, 2012, 11:27 AM

Nikon D800 v Canon 5D Mark III video test: high ISO, moiré, rolling shutter & dynamic range:

Robert Turchick · April 13th, 2012, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony Davies-Patrick

The need to actually sharpen every single video clip in post is also an issue, Nigel.

I've used the mkIII on a few gigs now and the sharpening (about 2-2.5%) in FCP, FCPX, and AE works like a champ. I can live with that since I grade most stuff anyway. What's amazing to me is how much better the mid-high ISO color representation on the mkIII is. Even that last video comparison, you can see the Nikon shift colors as the ISO goes up. And my 7D and mkII did the same thing.
Very happy with my purchase and I'm not knocking the 800 cause I've seen some beautiful stuff come out of it. As some have mentioned, right tool for the job no matter the brand! I'm just heavily vested in Canon glass. And my XF300 is a great videocamera for it's intended purpose. Best of both worlds!

Oleg Kalyan · April 15th, 2012, 11:25 AM

Better DD and resolution, from the Nikon, that's what we've discovered in a test on Time Square, had the D4 though, which seemed also be less noisy compared to 5Dmk3.

Jacques Mersereau · April 19th, 2012, 05:44 PM

Canon seems to crush the blacks no matter the iso. At least a couple of dark buildings appeared on the Nikon when the iso was cranked.

Brad Ballew · April 20th, 2012, 10:11 AM

Well the D4 is almost twice the price of the 5D3. I does look good though. I will be getting my own 5D MKIII in the next few days and look forward to putting it through it's paces.

As far as 5D3 vs D800. I personally like the 5D3 better. Like another poster said, not having aliasing/moire issues and having amazing low light capabilities is a big deal to me. I struggled with the terrible moire/aliasing issues in my 5D2. It can be amazing the things in your shot that can cause these issues. It's not just shirts, brick walls and water.

Also, having clean high ISOs is a big deal. There have actually been many times I was in a fairly dark area without the ability to set up lights and also needed to stop down quite a bit to increase my depth of field. This inevitably means having to use higher ISOs. It could be stressful trying to find the right balance between my Iris and ISO settings to get the best image. Having such a huge range of clean ISOs gives a lot of wiggle room.

Also, it does seem as though the 5D3 is more capable when it comes to sharpness and detail. There are two OLPFs in the camera and you can get one of them removed which has a pretty dramatic effect on the image. It apparently doesn't cause aliasing/moire issues.

It's seems Canon went a little overkill on the Anti aliasing filters.

Nigel Barker · April 20th, 2012, 11:24 AM

Quote:

It's seems Canon went a little overkill on the Anti aliasing filters.

Don't believe it. This is a complete load of crap. There is no objective evidence that removing the OLPF improves the resolution at all. Nobody shot any charts just voided the warranty then shot some footage & said "Doesn't that look sharp". Well it does but no sharper than the 5D3 (or 5D2) is capable of without any surgery. Those who have also performed the surgery did this weeks ago & yet after their initial enthusiasm have produced no other footage to demonstrate the supposed advantage to be gained by damaging the camera. I am guessing that they are too embarrassed to admit that they have screwed up their cameras & are just hoping that everybody will forget about the whole business.

Brad Ballew · April 20th, 2012, 12:51 PM

Interesting point. Although I have considered having my OLPF replaced, I was definitely planning on waiting a while until more test had been done. His results were compelling though.

Nigel Barker · April 21st, 2012, 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad Ballew

Interesting point. Although I have considered having my OLPF replaced, I was definitely planning on waiting a while until more test had been done. His results were compelling though.

Compelling? You are obviously easily impressed. All we have seen is a few minutes of transcoded, edited & compressed video without any point of reference or comparison. The video looks nice but no nicer than plenty of other video from the 5D3. There is as much evidence that removing the OLPF improves 5D3 video as there is for the use of a green marker to improve your CD audio.

Andy Wilkinson · April 21st, 2012, 05:11 AM

Stumbled upon this 5DMkII versus 5DMkIII versus Nikon D4 versus Nikon D800 test on Vimeo.

The moire comparisons sure are interesting and telling ;-)

Brad Ballew · April 21st, 2012, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nigel Barker

Compelling? You are obviously easily impressed. All we have seen is a few minutes of transcoded, edited & compressed video without any point of reference or comparison. The video looks nice but no nicer than plenty of other video from the 5D3. There is as much evidence that removing the OLPF improves 5D3 video as there is for the use of a green marker to improve your CD audio.

Well I was referring to the comparison pics from the link I provided. There was noticeably more detail (or so it seemed) in the image with the filter removed. It was certainly compelling enough to cause an uproar throughout the community. I wasn't going to be so hasty as to ship off my 5D3 next week to get it modded. However, I was going to keep an eye out for any updates on the matter.

Thank you for the link though. I will check it out.

Andy Wilkinson · April 22nd, 2012, 05:14 AM

Here is a Vimeo video with the OLPF removed. Not scientific, direct comparison shots with and without OLPF etc. but at least this guy is kind enough to share his footage whilst the debate on this goes on. Subjectively, at least to me, it actually looks softer than some of the other Vimeo footage I've seen with unbutchered 5DMkIIIs, although the early comments on Vimeo indicate some people think the exact opposite.....the jury's still out on this I think!

Brad Ballew · April 22nd, 2012, 07:09 AM

Thanks for sharing Andy. I wouldn't watch the video through Vimeo but instead download the file and watch that. It is considerably better looking than what is being streamed through vimeo. Having played with my 5D3 for several hours yesterday and today and I can say that his footage does look sharper out of the camera than mine. I was shooting very similar subject matter also.

I still find it interesting, and would love to see a proper comparison with charts. Surely somebody will make that happen soon. Also, I would like to know how unmodded 5D3 footage that is sharpened in post compares to the footage from the modded 5D3. It might turn out that there is a difference between a modded and unmodded 5D3, but that sharpening the unmodded would make them comparable.

However, there is no reason to run out and mod your camera yet for sure. It will be interesting to see what comes of all this.

Andy Wilkinson · April 22nd, 2012, 11:17 AM

Yeah I know, but it still looked pretty soft to me even when downloaded (I spend most days editing EX3 and TM900 footage that's razor sharp).

This teaser from Andrew Reid got posted toady and looks MUCH more promising, resolution wise....

Brad Ballew · April 22nd, 2012, 12:28 PM

I can understand that. I shoot and edit with EX3s at one of the places I do contract work for and they are far superior in image quality. I think the 5D footage is always going to have a little bit of that soft look, but the footage was a bit sharper than what I have experienced with my own 5D3.

This new clip you posted definitely looks sharper than what I have coming out of my camera. I would still love to see someone do a proper comparison though.

It will be interesting to see how all this plays out.

Nigel Barker · April 23rd, 2012, 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad Ballew

Thanks for sharing Andy. I wouldn't watch the video through Vimeo but instead download the file and watch that.

Unfortunately the guy is too cheap to pay $60 a year for a Vimeo Pro account & the free account download limit has been exceeded so we can't. The resolution is fine but no better than any other 5D3 footage shot in bright sunshine & there is a terrible red cast to the whole image.

Evidently he is going to provide a tutorial so that others can butcher their cameras too but is disinclined to shoot some charts or proper comparative footage.

When I first got my 5D2 over 3 years ago I would have sworn that it had better resolution than my XHA1 or HV30 until I saw some proper comparisons done & then realised that sharpening & contrast can produce false detail that gives the illusion of increased resolution. I am not prepared to trust my eyes (or anyone else's) when it comes to deciding which camera resolves more detail only proper evaluation with charts or proper side by side comparison can be trusted.

April 13th, 2012, 11:27 AM	#31
Tony Davies-Patrick Trustee Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Worldwide Posts: 1,589	Re: 5D Mk. III vs Nikon D800 - resolution, ISO, rolling shutter and more Nikon D800 v Canon 5D Mark III video test: high ISO, moiré, rolling shutter & dynamic range: Nikon D800 v Canon 5D Mark III video test: high ISO, moiré, rolling shutter & dynamic range - YouTube __________________ www.WILDCARP.com www.NIKON.me.uk

April 15th, 2012, 11:25 AM	#33
Oleg Kalyan Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: MOSCOW Posts: 860	Re: 5D Mk. III vs Nikon D800 - resolution, ISO, rolling shutter and more Better DD and resolution, from the Nikon, that's what we've discovered in a test on Time Square, had the D4 though, which seemed also be less noisy compared to 5Dmk3. Nikon D4, Canon 5dmk3, 5dmk2, (Panasonic GH2), comparative test on Time Square, NY on Vimeo

April 19th, 2012, 05:44 PM	#34
Jacques Mersereau Trustee Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 1,334	Re: 5D Mk. III vs Nikon D800 - resolution, ISO, rolling shutter and more Canon seems to crush the blacks no matter the iso. At least a couple of dark buildings appeared on the Nikon when the iso was cranked. __________________ Jacques Mersereau University of Michigan-Video Studio Manager

April 20th, 2012, 10:11 AM	#35
Brad Ballew Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Frisco, TX Posts: 65	Re: 5D Mk. III vs Nikon D800 - resolution, ISO, rolling shutter and more Well the D4 is almost twice the price of the 5D3. I does look good though. I will be getting my own 5D MKIII in the next few days and look forward to putting it through it's paces. As far as 5D3 vs D800. I personally like the 5D3 better. Like another poster said, not having aliasing/moire issues and having amazing low light capabilities is a big deal to me. I struggled with the terrible moire/aliasing issues in my 5D2. It can be amazing the things in your shot that can cause these issues. It's not just shirts, brick walls and water. Also, having clean high ISOs is a big deal. There have actually been many times I was in a fairly dark area without the ability to set up lights and also needed to stop down quite a bit to increase my depth of field. This inevitably means having to use higher ISOs. It could be stressful trying to find the right balance between my Iris and ISO settings to get the best image. Having such a huge range of clean ISOs gives a lot of wiggle room. Also, it does seem as though the 5D3 is more capable when it comes to sharpness and detail. There are two OLPFs in the camera and you can get one of them removed which has a pretty dramatic effect on the image. It apparently doesn't cause aliasing/moire issues. It's seems Canon went a little overkill on the Anti aliasing filters.

April 20th, 2012, 12:51 PM	#37
Brad Ballew Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Frisco, TX Posts: 65	Re: 5D Mk. III vs Nikon D800 - resolution, ISO, rolling shutter and more Interesting point. Although I have considered having my OLPF replaced, I was definitely planning on waiting a while until more test had been done. His results were compelling though.

April 21st, 2012, 05:11 AM	#39
Andy Wilkinson Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Cambridge UK Posts: 2,853	Re: 5D Mk. III vs Nikon D800 - resolution, ISO, rolling shutter and more Stumbled upon this 5DMkII versus 5DMkIII versus Nikon D4 versus Nikon D800 test on Vimeo. 5D? vs 5DII/ D800/ D4 on Vimeo The moire comparisons sure are interesting and telling ;-) __________________ Andy K Wilkinson - https://www.shootingimage.co.uk Cambridge (UK) Corporate Video Production

April 22nd, 2012, 05:14 AM	#41
Andy Wilkinson Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Cambridge UK Posts: 2,853	Re: 5D Mk. III OLPF Removed Here is a Vimeo video with the OLPF removed. Not scientific, direct comparison shots with and without OLPF etc. but at least this guy is kind enough to share his footage whilst the debate on this goes on. Subjectively, at least to me, it actually looks softer than some of the other Vimeo footage I've seen with unbutchered 5DMkIIIs, although the early comments on Vimeo indicate some people think the exact opposite.....the jury's still out on this I think! 5D3 OLPF Removed on Vimeo __________________ Andy K Wilkinson - https://www.shootingimage.co.uk Cambridge (UK) Corporate Video Production

April 22nd, 2012, 07:09 AM	#42
Brad Ballew Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Frisco, TX Posts: 65	Re: 5D Mk. III vs Nikon D800 - resolution, ISO, rolling shutter and more Thanks for sharing Andy. I wouldn't watch the video through Vimeo but instead download the file and watch that. It is considerably better looking than what is being streamed through vimeo. Having played with my 5D3 for several hours yesterday and today and I can say that his footage does look sharper out of the camera than mine. I was shooting very similar subject matter also. I still find it interesting, and would love to see a proper comparison with charts. Surely somebody will make that happen soon. Also, I would like to know how unmodded 5D3 footage that is sharpened in post compares to the footage from the modded 5D3. It might turn out that there is a difference between a modded and unmodded 5D3, but that sharpening the unmodded would make them comparable. However, there is no reason to run out and mod your camera yet for sure. It will be interesting to see what comes of all this.

April 22nd, 2012, 11:17 AM	#43
Andy Wilkinson Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Cambridge UK Posts: 2,853	Re: 5D Mk. III vs Nikon D800 - resolution, ISO, rolling shutter and more Yeah I know, but it still looked pretty soft to me even when downloaded (I spend most days editing EX3 and TM900 footage that's razor sharp). This teaser from Andrew Reid got posted toady and looks MUCH more promising, resolution wise.... 5D Mark III - Zeroed AA Filter - Sneak Preview on Vimeo __________________ Andy K Wilkinson - https://www.shootingimage.co.uk Cambridge (UK) Corporate Video Production

April 22nd, 2012, 12:28 PM	#44
Brad Ballew Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Frisco, TX Posts: 65	Re: 5D Mk. III vs Nikon D800 - resolution, ISO, rolling shutter and more I can understand that. I shoot and edit with EX3s at one of the places I do contract work for and they are far superior in image quality. I think the 5D footage is always going to have a little bit of that soft look, but the footage was a bit sharper than what I have experienced with my own 5D3. This new clip you posted definitely looks sharper than what I have coming out of my camera. I would still love to see someone do a proper comparison though. It will be interesting to see how all this plays out.