Soliciting Comments on Startup 5D System

[Nigel Barker]

Originally Posted by Tony Davies-Patrick

The AF on the Canon lenses can be handy for use of the AF-On button at start of some video sequences (albeit painfully slow) when the LCD loupe is not in place.
More importantly, it allows fast AF for when she will be taking stills (I doubt if she will ONLY be using the 5D for video, because if so, then Steve would be better off buying a camcorder).

I use all Canon lenses for just this reason although if you set the Live View focus mode to Quick AF it is anything but slow as it just flips the mirror down & hits focus just as when taking a still & then gets the mirror out of the way again. The default Live Mode AF is much slower but can be used while recording video although the change in exposure while it is hunting for focus renders the image unusable.

[Nigel Barker]

Originally Posted by David Chilson

A DSLR is a good 2nd camera for documentaries and would be a great addition later on but why deal with that 12 minute limit while trying to shoot your first one?

My recommendation of the superior 5D3 is partly because the recording limit is now 30 minutes on that model.

[Josh Dahlberg]

Originally Posted by Nigel Barker

As someone who has owned a 5D2 for over three years & now owns a 5D3 I would unhesitatingly say that you should drop some of the extras & buy the 5D3. It is a significantly better camera both for stills & video. She can live without the shoulder rig, matte box & all that other junk. It's a great temptation to buy a load of gear all at once for the complete setup but as one who has been down that route I recommend against it. You don't need a monitor, you don't need an EVF, you don't need a follow focus. All you need is a loupe, variable ND filter, monopod & a tripod.

Get her the 5D3 with the 24-105mm kit lens plus loupe, variable ND filter, monopod & a tripod. Give her the rest of your budget in cash to spend herself as & when items are required.

Absolutely concur with Nigel's recommendations (and David's earlier, about the kit being overly complex). When I started out with a 5DII more than 3 years ago I bought far too many accessories - adding "junk" as Nigel put it so aptly can really bog you down... I ended up selling my matte box, follow focus and shoulder rig (and even my loupe) because ultimately they were unnecessary complications.

A 5DIII with a monopod, tripod and variable ND will be much faster to work with and produce superior images to a 5DII with a clunky set-up... all the extras may sound enticing but they can get in the way of capturing great moments and won't necessarily make your daughter's images look any prettier. She can always add this stuff later if she finds anything lacking.

Whereas the 5DIII will remove the (rather large) moire problem that afflicts the 5DII, offer headphone monitoring, much longer clips, and much better low light performance.

If you do go for a set of Nikkors (which are lovely and cheap), I would supplement them with an IS lens option like the 24-105 rather than the 24-70, because the 24-70 is covering the same range without offering anything additional.

[Nigel Barker]

The 24-105mm F/4L USM IS is also a bargain when purchased as the kit lens with the 5D3. The complaint has always been that with a maximum F/4 aperture it isn't so good in low light but as the 5D3 is 1-2 stops better than the 5D2 that disadvantage is moot. The new version of the 24-70mm F/2.8L is colossally expensive & not shipping yet while the older version is larger weighs a ton & is actually a rather indifferent lens in my opinion.

[Josh Dahlberg]

Agreed again Nigel - I have the original 24-70 and it has never really endeared me... selling for the 24-105.

[Brian David Melnyk]

i would add that the variable ND should be 82mm with an adapter. the 77mm vignettes at the wide end on my 24-105 (i use the singh ray), and neuters that lens at about 30mm. i would imagine it does the same for any other 77mm lens at the wide end. really disappointed with that as it is really expensive! works brilliantly with my 35 2.0 and an adapter, though.
also, if you cut some of the $ off your list with less add-ons or cheaper ones (maybe look into the $50 FF on Kickstarter, can also be used for zoom), maybe you could afford a small HD camera (an XA10?) and a stabilizer like a Merlin.
the 5D and the XA10 on a Merlin would be a really versatile set up and is what i am actually looking to put together this summer.
a would also add that the smallHD DP6 monitor is a real treat to focus with!

[Nigel Barker]

Originally Posted by Brian David Melnyk

i would add that the variable ND should be 82mm with an adapter. the 77mm vignettes at the wide end on my 24-105 (i use the singh ray), and neuters that lens at about 30mm.

The LightCraft Workshop Fader ND 77mm filter is effectively an 82mm filter with a built-in step down ring to 77mm so vignetting is not a problem. Likewise with other sizes of LCW variable ND filter it is over-sized with a step down ring.

[Steve Roman]

Thanks to everyone. I've tried to absorb all the comments and suggestions and came up with a modified proposal.

Matthew: You said she won't need the Zoom - H4n with a Mark III and can obtain similar quality sound using the Rode NTG-2. Is that correct?

Nigel: Where can I find the specific LightCraft Workshop Fader ND 77mm filter that you recommend?

EOS 5D Mark III Digital Camera (body only)
Canon 28mm f/1.8 Manual Focus Lens
Canon 50mm f/1.4 Manual Focus Lens
Canon 70-200mm f/2.8L IS Lens
Zacuto Target Shooter
SmallHD DP4-EVF
Rode NTG-2 Condenser Shotgun Microphone Kit
Sachtler ACE M MS Tripod System 1001
HDV-Z96 LED Photo/Video Light Kit
Light Craft Workshop Fader Vari ND 77mm
Lowepro Fastpack 350 Camera Backpack

What other accessories are required to make all of this work together?

This configuration has about the same total cost as the original system.

[Nigel Barker]

Just make sure that you get a genuine LCW Fader ND mk II. There are plenty of cheap (& not so cheap knock-offs). I have purchased direct from LCW in Hong Kong & had them delivered within the week. These guys are in LA & look to be legit 77mm Fader ND Mark 2 by Light Craft Workshop | eBay Alternatively perhaps someone can chime in with a reliable US based seller?

[Josh Dahlberg]

Well done Steve... that looks like a much better proposition to me. I like your lens choices!

A few (relatively cheap) essential components are:

1) a step up ring to go from the lenses to the fader (from memory both the 28 and 50mm lenses have 58mm front ends, so you would need a 58-77mm step up ring - if you buy the 70-200 this has a 77mm front thread so you can mount the fader directly if you purchase a 77mm fader).

2) an xlr to mini jack to get sound from the Rode to the camera (I would get a very short one for camera mounting, and a much longer option to get the mic near to interviewees). A light/portable mic stand would also be very useful for interview situations.

3) a 77mm screw in lens hood to go on the end of the fader (could go for two, a wider/shorter version for the primes and a narrower/longer hood for the telephoto).

The list you outline would make an excellent package covering all bases. Personally, if I had to drop any one item for budgetary reasons, it would be the Zacuto... but that's just me! All the best.

[Les Wilson]

I don't mean to be a shill for Zacuto but I have their Z-Finder and it's awesome. I also like that they are up front that their stuff is designed and wherever possible, made in the free world.

I don't think the SmallDP EVF lets you have a loupe configuration as the Zacuto does. The Zacuto EVF gives you the option of a more minimal rig using the Z-finder as a loupe. This is key for stealthier shooting for documentaries. There's the Z-finder EVF Pro that you have to add a gorilla plate and 5D frame to get the loupe configuration or just get the EVF Snap and a Z-Finder Pro to get everything. I recommend the extra 5D frame made specifically for that camera.
Z-Finder EVF (Electronic Viewfinder)

Note that some models of the Z-Finder have a diopter and some don't. The Z-Finder Pro is the gold standard for DSLR filmmakers. I highly recommend the diopter for nothing else than accommodating the eyesight of various people on the crew that at one time or another will need to see.

[David Chilson]

Steve,

Great setup, for a wedding person. I own all those lenses and as soon as my dealer calls I will get the 5D3, (but I'm also getting the 24-105 kit lens, it's a great deal in the kit.)

But for less money you could get an XF300, which by the way the BBC uses in their documentaries so it should be pretty good for a graduating film student. It has proper audio, nd filters and viewfinder in a compact handy package. Have you ever held a 5D 70-200 lens and all those whiz bang ad ons? It's a pain in the arse.

OK, I'm done now and I'll leave this alone.

PS, remember there is a great area of the forum that you can sell things.

[Steve Roman]

Originally Posted by Josh Dahlberg

Well done Steve... that looks like a much better proposition to me. I like your lens choices!

A few (relatively cheap) essential components are:

1) a step up ring to go from the lenses to the fader (from memory both the 28 and 50mm lenses have 58mm front ends, so you would need a 58-77mm step up ring - if you buy the 70-200 this has a 77mm front thread so you can mount the fader directly if you purchase a 77mm fader).

2) an xlr to mini jack to get sound from the Rode to the camera (I would get a very short one for camera mounting, and a much longer option to get the mic near to interviewees). A light/portable mic stand would also be very useful for interview situations.

3) a 77mm screw in lens hood to go on the end of the fader (could go for two, a wider/shorter version for the primes and a narrower/longer hood for the telephoto).

The list you outline would make an excellent package covering all bases. Personally, if I had to drop any one item for budgetary reasons, it would be the Zacuto... but that's just me! All the best.

Thanks, Josh.

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4. Rode VC1 Minijack/3.5mm Stereo Extension Cable (3m/10').
5. Rode ZP1 Microphone Padded Zip Pouch.
6. Rode RM5 Durable Microphone Clip.
7. Rode WSVM Pop Filter/Wind Screen.
8. Rode Microphones' industry leading 10 year warranty.
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[Matthew Hurley]

If your daughter is going to ply her trade in CR I would suggest getting some sort of rain gear for her kit. I had a bad experience shooting some surfin down in Dominical. Got caught in an afternoon storm.

[Tony Davies-Patrick]

Originally Posted by Steve Roman

Matthew: You said she won't need the Zoom - H4n with a Mark III and can obtain similar quality sound using the Rode NTG-2. Is that correct?
.

I have very big doubts that the Mark III with a Rode NTG-2 plugged into the mini jack socket would match the sound obtained from any separative sound recordings, such as via the the H4 or H4n. The Rode will be OK for some on-camera recordings, but for top quality sound there is no doubt that Dual Audio will be needed.
Until the DSLR's have XLR ports and an array of other basic needs for high quality stereo sound recordings, then dual audio sound recording is an important part of video...especially given the subject matter that Steve's daughter has chosen.
My advice is to definitely not leave out the Zoom H4 from your your list.