HDR from a moving vehicle at DVinfo.net

Graham King · June 2nd, 2011, 11:00 AM

Photomatix was able to remove some of the ghosting but there's still a lot. I knew there would be when I was shooting it but it looks cool anyway so I just kept it up.

Let me know what you think!

Warren Kawamoto · June 2nd, 2011, 01:05 PM

Were you shooting 3 bracketed images per frame, or just 1? HDR is fun!

Graham King · June 2nd, 2011, 01:14 PM

3 bracketed images. Results in some ghosting but it looks so cool.

I am totally addicted to HDR right now and having a lot of fun!

Ken Diewert · June 2nd, 2011, 02:52 PM

Hey Graham,

That is some cool stuff... thanks for sharing.

Jon Fairhurst · June 2nd, 2011, 06:48 PM

Looks great.

The compression on Vimeo was much more unfortunate than any ghosting. I can only imagine how great this must look with a less aggressive codec. :)

Peer Landa · June 3rd, 2011, 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham King

Let me know what you think!

Usually I don't care much for HDR, but this is quite nice (and the sound track plays perfectly with the footage). Good job. The only thing that bothers me is the bumped sharpening(?) -- it's a bit too plastic video look for my taste. Yet, it's a very nice piece.

-- peer

Graham King · June 3rd, 2011, 12:28 AM

Yea, the Vimeo compression is brutal on this piece. I originally uploaded an H.264 720 @ 10Mbps. I just replaced it with XDCAM EX 1080 @ 35Mbps and I think it helped a little. It's the compression on Vimeo's end that kills it. I think it's a difficult one to encode well at lower bit rates because of the wide dynamic range and dramatic differences from frame to frame.

Jon Fairhurst · June 3rd, 2011, 12:47 AM

Yeah, it's the combination of high contrast and motion that rips the compression up.

You should submit the raw footage to the Moving Pictures Experts Group (MPEG). Seriously. It's quite the test!

Graham King · June 3rd, 2011, 12:58 AM

I did a quick search on this and didn't turn anything up. How do I submit and what is the purpose? I'm guessing it's for research as they develop new standards.

Sanjin Svajger · June 3rd, 2011, 05:50 AM

Very nice! It looks amazing. Don't really care if it's not 100% on the technical side... And the music really makes it a nice whole!

Jon Fairhurst · June 3rd, 2011, 10:16 AM

I know some people who are members of ISO/IEC JTC1/SC29. I'll forward the link and see what they think. I'll let them know that you would make the original footage available.

Moving Picture Experts Group - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It's possible that your encoder is poor. The way that codec standards work is that they specify exactly how the decoder shall work. The encoder implementation has lots of freedom. As long as the decoder can properly decode the output, the encoder is compliant. Some encoders implement amazing advanced features like sub-pixel motion vectors and variable block sizes. Other encoders slap the output together quickly with no extra features and put a bow on it. It's a tradeoff as few of us want our computers to crunch video for hours on end to produce a single minute of compressed video.

So, it's possible that my colleagues will blame the encoder. But if you make the original available, maybe they will see if they can do better. :)

Chris Talawe · June 3rd, 2011, 10:38 AM

Nice work!

Graham King · June 3rd, 2011, 10:55 AM

It's a bit confusing to me. So are you saying it's a software thing more so than a codec thing?

I rendered my photo sequences out of AE as ProRes LT. Is that the footage they would want or would it be better to rerender to a better codec like ProRes HQ or 4444 or uncompressed?

And the work they might do, would it make the vimeo version any better? With my 5GB limit I could upload a version at 330Mbps. But wouldn't vimeo still make a mess of it?

Jon Fairhurst · June 3rd, 2011, 01:16 PM

I'm not a Mac guy, so I don't know about the relative quality of their encoding options.

In any case, Vimeo ships out h.264, whether you encoded it directly or if they transcoded it. And the encoder used on your video might not have been the highest quality option. In fact, Vimeo has to crunch a ton of videos. I'd bet that their encoders are rudimentary for economic reasons.

Simply put, all decoders must do exactly the same thing. Encoders, on the other hand, vary in quality and complexity - even when encoding to the same format and bitrate.

I recommend encoding h.264 at 5,000 bps for 720p yourself for delivery to Vimeo. I believe that they don't have to re-compress if you deliver at that level.

For audio, use AAC, 320 kbps, 44.100 kHz.

Compression guidelines on Vimeo

Reggie Moser · June 3rd, 2011, 02:16 PM

This is a very cool look that I'm rally not familiar with but I have seen it before......Can someone direct me to an HDR workflow? Is the workflow the same for stills and video? Thanks in advance.

June 2nd, 2011, 11:00 AM	#1
Graham King Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Oakland, CA Posts: 112	HDR from a moving vehicle Photomatix was able to remove some of the ghosting but there's still a lot. I knew there would be when I was shooting it but it looks cool anyway so I just kept it up. Let me know what you think! KC to the Bay on Vimeo

June 2nd, 2011, 01:05 PM	#2
Warren Kawamoto Trustee Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 1,435	Re: HDR from a moving vehicle Were you shooting 3 bracketed images per frame, or just 1? HDR is fun!

June 2nd, 2011, 01:14 PM	#3
Graham King Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Oakland, CA Posts: 112	Re: HDR from a moving vehicle 3 bracketed images. Results in some ghosting but it looks so cool. I am totally addicted to HDR right now and having a lot of fun!

June 2nd, 2011, 02:52 PM	#4
Ken Diewert Trustee Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Vancouver Island, Canada Posts: 1,200	Re: HDR from a moving vehicle Hey Graham, That is some cool stuff... thanks for sharing. __________________ C100, 5DMk2, FCPX

June 2nd, 2011, 06:48 PM	#5
Jon Fairhurst Inner Circle Join Date: May 2006 Location: Camas, WA, USA Posts: 5,513	Re: HDR from a moving vehicle Looks great. The compression on Vimeo was much more unfortunate than any ghosting. I can only imagine how great this must look with a less aggressive codec. :) __________________ Jon Fairhurst

June 3rd, 2011, 12:28 AM	#7
Graham King Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Oakland, CA Posts: 112	Re: HDR from a moving vehicle Yea, the Vimeo compression is brutal on this piece. I originally uploaded an H.264 720 @ 10Mbps. I just replaced it with XDCAM EX 1080 @ 35Mbps and I think it helped a little. It's the compression on Vimeo's end that kills it. I think it's a difficult one to encode well at lower bit rates because of the wide dynamic range and dramatic differences from frame to frame.

June 3rd, 2011, 12:47 AM	#8
Jon Fairhurst Inner Circle Join Date: May 2006 Location: Camas, WA, USA Posts: 5,513	Re: HDR from a moving vehicle Yeah, it's the combination of high contrast and motion that rips the compression up. You should submit the raw footage to the Moving Pictures Experts Group (MPEG). Seriously. It's quite the test! __________________ Jon Fairhurst

June 3rd, 2011, 12:58 AM	#9
Graham King Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Oakland, CA Posts: 112	Re: HDR from a moving vehicle I did a quick search on this and didn't turn anything up. How do I submit and what is the purpose? I'm guessing it's for research as they develop new standards.

June 3rd, 2011, 05:50 AM	#10
Sanjin Svajger Major Player Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Slovenia Posts: 356	Re: HDR from a moving vehicle Very nice! It looks amazing. Don't really care if it's not 100% on the technical side... And the music really makes it a nice whole!

June 3rd, 2011, 10:16 AM	#11
Jon Fairhurst Inner Circle Join Date: May 2006 Location: Camas, WA, USA Posts: 5,513	Re: HDR from a moving vehicle I know some people who are members of ISO/IEC JTC1/SC29. I'll forward the link and see what they think. I'll let them know that you would make the original footage available. Moving Picture Experts Group - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia It's possible that your encoder is poor. The way that codec standards work is that they specify exactly how the decoder shall work. The encoder implementation has lots of freedom. As long as the decoder can properly decode the output, the encoder is compliant. Some encoders implement amazing advanced features like sub-pixel motion vectors and variable block sizes. Other encoders slap the output together quickly with no extra features and put a bow on it. It's a tradeoff as few of us want our computers to crunch video for hours on end to produce a single minute of compressed video. So, it's possible that my colleagues will blame the encoder. But if you make the original available, maybe they will see if they can do better. :) __________________ Jon Fairhurst

June 3rd, 2011, 10:38 AM	#12
Chris Talawe Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Fremont, CA. Posts: 78	Re: HDR from a moving vehicle Nice work!

June 3rd, 2011, 10:55 AM	#13
Graham King Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Oakland, CA Posts: 112	Re: HDR from a moving vehicle It's a bit confusing to me. So are you saying it's a software thing more so than a codec thing? I rendered my photo sequences out of AE as ProRes LT. Is that the footage they would want or would it be better to rerender to a better codec like ProRes HQ or 4444 or uncompressed? And the work they might do, would it make the vimeo version any better? With my 5GB limit I could upload a version at 330Mbps. But wouldn't vimeo still make a mess of it?

June 3rd, 2011, 01:16 PM	#14
Jon Fairhurst Inner Circle Join Date: May 2006 Location: Camas, WA, USA Posts: 5,513	Re: HDR from a moving vehicle I'm not a Mac guy, so I don't know about the relative quality of their encoding options. In any case, Vimeo ships out h.264, whether you encoded it directly or if they transcoded it. And the encoder used on your video might not have been the highest quality option. In fact, Vimeo has to crunch a ton of videos. I'd bet that their encoders are rudimentary for economic reasons. Simply put, all decoders must do exactly the same thing. Encoders, on the other hand, vary in quality and complexity - even when encoding to the same format and bitrate. I recommend encoding h.264 at 5,000 bps for 720p yourself for delivery to Vimeo. I believe that they don't have to re-compress if you deliver at that level. For audio, use AAC, 320 kbps, 44.100 kHz. Compression guidelines on Vimeo __________________ Jon Fairhurst

June 3rd, 2011, 02:16 PM	#15
Reggie Moser Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 113	Re: HDR from a moving vehicle This is a very cool look that I'm rally not familiar with but I have seen it before......Can someone direct me to an HDR workflow? Is the workflow the same for stills and video? Thanks in advance.