Hot new video card, 5D files still choppy!

[Danny Winn]

So I thought that upgrading my video card would help to play these 5D video files but they play exactly the same, choppy, jumpy, studdery (30 second File). Everybody told me that this would do the trick. Can anybody explain why it didn't work?

My new Video card specs:

Nividia GTS 450
1GB
DDR5
800Mhrts Clock Speed.

Computer Specs:
Pentium 2.5 quad core
6GB Ram
Premiere Pro CS4

I DO want to get CS5 but until I can afford it I would really like to edit without converting. The converted files didn't play any better and they were 3 times larger of course (Using Cineform)

Thanks everybody!

[Bill Davis]

It didn't work because the NATIVE file format of the 5d is an implementation of H-264 bandwidth limited to about 100 Gbps. In order to display and edit the data stream, you're asking your computer to decode and process for display and editing a data stream that's simply TOO BIG for even a speedy modern computer to comfortably handle.

This is why virtually everyone who works with 5d files TRANSCODES into another more editing friendly codec before they work with their files.

On the Mac side, that's the entire function of ProRes 422LT - the codec built directly into the FCP Log and Transfer function and the SAME codec that you transcode to when working with the EOS Utility directly from Canon.

There are other codecs that do a similar job of limiting the data rate AND the required "on the fly" transcoding, but unless you're working in SOMETHING other than the full Native card cocec and files, you're likely GOING to have the kind of problems your facing.

Sorry. But it's as simple as that.

[Danny Winn]

Originally Posted by Bill Davis

It didn't work because the NATIVE file format of the 5d is an implementation of H-264 bandwidth limited to about 100 Gbps. In order to display and edit the data stream, you're asking your computer to decode and process for display and editing a data stream that's simply TOO BIG for even a speedy modern computer to comfortably handle.

This is why virtually everyone who works with 5d files TRANSCODES into another more editing friendly codec before they work with their files.

On the Mac side, that's the entire function of ProRes 422LT - the codec built directly into the FCP Log and Transfer function and the SAME codec that you transcode to when working with the EOS Utility directly from Canon.

There are other codecs that do a similar job of limiting the data rate AND the required "on the fly" transcoding, but unless you're working in SOMETHING other than the full Native card cocec and files, you're likely GOING to have the kind of problems your facing.

Sorry. But it's as simple as that.

Thanks so much Bill,

Everyone says that the CS5 version of Premiere Pro plays these files no problem at all even with the same system as the CS4, any info on whether that is true or not and why?

Thanks again;)

[Jim Greene]

It takes time for NLE software developers to enable their editing software to handle new codecs, such as h.264. Just as going from DV .avi files to HDV .m2t files in the past, there will be yet another new format that will cause them to update their software again. Your problem is not your system but because you are using CS4. CS5, Vegas Pro 10, and Edius 6 all natively handle the h.264 files recorded by the 5D. The previous version of all these NLE's did not handle h.264 very well, hence everyone transcoded their files. FCP still requires trasncoding.

You need to upgrade to CS5 and you will be happy (but you MUST have a 64-bit OS, they no longer support 32-bit).

[Pete Bauer]

I'll slant the same good points slightly differently. The 1080p data rate for the 5Dmii is 38.6Mbps which is not a problem for disk subsystems. However, the codec is highly compressed and computationally intensive to decode or encode so there's really no getting around the need for a fast processor and efficient editing software.

I'm sorry you got steered wrong about the video card; it'll really do nothing for you. Even in CS5, the CPU still has to do the basic decode and the graphics card only comes into play for parallel processing of the more commonly used effects. Your system unfortunately would now be considered quite slow and has an old version of the software that is 10-15% less efficient than CS5. And I'll guess your system uses XP, which is also much less efficient for this kind of work.

My old editing box was a QX6700 with 8GB RAM running Vista and I could get reasonable single-stream timeline performance in CS4 and CS5 for MPG4 files, but much more and it would not do well. Bill comments on the traditional answer to this problem of transcoding to an intermediate codec and there are good reasons to do so. On the other hand, if one has an i7 system with lots of RAM, Win7 x64, CS5, and a compatible graphics card, you really don't need to transcode for all but the most particular work. In addition to smoother timeline performance, some intermediate codecs give you additional features like deeper color, etc, etc that you may or may not require. Downsides to intermediate codecs include the cost to purchase and maintain, extra time to transcode and usually much increased file sizes (and therefore disk storage).

By way of example, my current editing box is a Win7 system as I just described, and I can happily edit multi-track, long form pieces with mixed native HD footage on the timeline: HDV, AVCHD, 5Dmii MOV all in the same sequence, even loaded down with effects (as long as they are the GPU-accelerated ones).

So to get the performance you want, you do need to do one or both: upgrade your system hardware and software and/or acquire an intermediate codec. If you're going to do one of those, I'd go with the new system.

[Kin Lau]

Originally Posted by Danny Winn

Everyone says that the CS5 version of Premiere Pro plays these files no problem at all even with the same system as the CS4, any info on whether that is true or not and why?

CS5 has NVidia CUDA support, CS4 does not.

[Danny Winn]

Thanks everybody!

Looks like I've gotta make aquiring CS5 a priority. Just for the record I am using Windows Vista:)

I think I'll keep this Graphics card anyway as I was due for an update anyway.

I appreciate all the info from every one, thanks again!

[Jon Fairhurst]

If your version of Vista is 64-bits, you might be okay. If not, upgrade to Windows 7 64-bits. CS5 doesn't run on 32-bit systems.

[Danny Winn]

Originally Posted by Jon Fairhurst

If your version of Vista is 64-bits, you might be okay. If not, upgrade to Windows 7 64-bits. CS5 doesn't run on 32-bit systems.

Hey thanks Jon, yeah, I do have a 64 bit system;)

[Jon Fairhurst]

64-bits? Cool. One less thing to upgrade.

Regarding your video card, I have bad and good news.

The bad news is that CS5 doesn't support GPU acceleration on the GT450 natively:
system requirements | Adobe Premiere Pro CS5

The good news is that there are hacks available to make it work. :)
Adobe Premiere CS5 Video Cards with CUDA Acceleration Mercury Playback Unlock Enable MPE Hack Mod Tip

More good news: you have enough memory (>896MB required), and it is DDR5 (highly preferred). :) :)

[Danny Winn]

Originally Posted by Jon Fairhurst

64-bits? Cool. One less thing to upgrade.

Regarding your video card, I have bad and good news.

The bad news is that CS5 doesn't support GPU acceleration on the GT450 natively:
system requirements | Adobe Premiere Pro CS5

The good news is that there are hacks available to make it work. :)
Adobe Premiere CS5 Video Cards with CUDA Acceleration Mercury Playback Unlock Enable MPE Hack Mod Tip

More good news: you have enough memory (>896MB required), and it is DDR5 (highly preferred). :) :)

Oh man:(

Is there an equivilent card you would recommenf that does? I have 10 days to get my money back on this one, I paid $200.00.

Thanks

[Pete Bauer]

Danny, don't worry about the card. There are directions in a different thread in our Adobe forum all about the hack. I haven't tried it myself but it appears quite easy and many have done it with no difficulty.

[Jon Fairhurst]

Yeah, Danny, that last link I posted above tells you how to unlock your card. Once unlocked, it's just as good as the natively supported cards.

It's all good. :)

[Danny Winn]

Originally Posted by Jon Fairhurst

Yeah, Danny, that last link I posted above tells you how to unlock your card. Once unlocked, it's just as good as the natively supported cards.

It's all good. :)

Well I pulled an all nighter last night and pretty much emptied my my bank account but I did download and install Premiere Pro CS5 and use the Graphics card hack link Jon.

Everything runs beautifully! I'ts so nice to be able to play and edit these raw files with no problem;) Can't thank you guy enough.

Now if I could only get Magic Lantern to work without freezing up the camera right when I begin recording. Installed it 20 times to no avail, I'm guessing Canon disabled the new version of ML.

Thanks again!

[Harry Simpson]

Originally Posted by Jim Greene

CS5, Vegas Pro 10, and Edius 6 all natively handle the h.264 files recorded by the 5D. The previous version of all these NLE's did not handle h.264 very well, hence everyone transcoded their files.

I've just spent like three days transcoding 25 10 minute MOVs to AVIs using Cineform and someone asked me why i was transcoding and not using the native MOVs and It was kinda like - well I thought I had to. Even upgraded Cineform so I could use in Vegas Pro 10e. But you saying too that I really don't need the Cineform?

What about DualEyes, will it work with MOVs for syncing? testing later!!

Thanks