Canon 5D and Lilliput Brightness

[Harry Simpson]

Any pointers for setting on the Lilliput for accurate brightness of images captured. I recently shot a panel discussion and in the Lilliput the talent looked well lit but in post the video was darker....I wish i'd set the ISO higher. Ended up brightening in post but anyone else run into this?

Suppose i'm gonna just need to do testing to see what works best.

[Josh Bass]

I just got one of these monitors. I've read they're good for judging focus and framing, not much beyond that. . .i.e. not so good for color/contrast accuracy. I would LOVE to be proven wrong. You can certainly run a color bar signal to them (did it from my XL2), but how do you CALIBRATE it? For some reason the pluge doesn't show up from the XL2 bars! It's just pure black at the bottom where it should be no matter how much you adjust the Lilliput brightness! And there's no blue gun. I had always red putting a piece of blue gel over the screen was a good substitute. So I tried it. . .even doubling over a piece of Full CTB many times over, I couldn't get the same monochrome effect you get with a real blue gun. So how is that aspect supposed to work?

[Harry Simpson]

Josh I'll leave aspect ratio and other to your thread. Just wanted to discuss brightness issue. Going to test today different settings of Lilliput monitor brightness and 5D iso. I'll report back. Wondered if others had experienced the apparent difference in what the monitor is "seeing" and darker output video.

[Josh Bass]

That's what I mean. . .these lilliputs maybe no good for color/contrast accuracy. I had read that before I decided to get one.

I'm DPing a 0-budget short film right now and we've developed a goofy workflow for these issues. . .we have my old Sony CRT that I trust for color/contrast. I calibrate that to my XL2's color bars, and use that to judge color/contrast from the 5D via the AV cable. We also have a regular 24" computer monitor that we hook up to the cam's HDMI to judge focus/depth of field. The lilliput will probably act more like the computer monitor, that is, be crisper than the very soft SD composite image, but not very accurate color/contrast-wise.

Again, would love to be proven wrong, but I can't even seem to calibrate the lilliput to color bars.

I was thinking another, less scientific way would be to take a monitor you trust (for instance my Sony CRT), shoot something like a human subject, lit so the image has significant contrast, and simply tweak the lilliput so it matches as closely as possible the image on the trusted monitor, given the differences in LCDs vs CRTs, etc. Better than nothing.

[Harry Simpson]

I'm with you Josh,

I don't use the monitor for color or contrast. I do however want to make sure I've got the ISO high enough to light the scene well. I did find that I had the brightness on the monitor up to 67% so I reduced that to more like 55% and saw that I needed to bump the ISO to get a well lit scene or at least a scene more like the actual scene shot.
I haven't gotten the tests I ran yesterday into my post program but plan to do that tonight to see the differences.

I think that was my problem.....

Thanks
Harry

[Ted Ramasola]

Harry,

have you tried loading a smpte color bar jpeg to your cf card then "playing" it back from the 5D to your liliput?

I have saved color bars on each of my cf cards for this purpose.

[Chris Barcellos]

False color on my Marshall monitor really are a godsend to setting proper exposure. The new feature Antony Newman is developing in his version of Magic Lantern for the 5D has that. I have been testing it, and the best features in it is the inclusion of zebras and false colors in the camera to help establish proper exposure. Problem with that right now is monitor out is not yet function for that purpose. On the newer T2i Magic Lantern versions, false colors are also availabe by pressing and holding of the flash button, and that can be configured to stay on indefinitely while setting up the shot. You do have go through step to lock it in to right color render (hit play back button once) but then it produces the same false color map that the Marshall monitor uses. While I have tried it recently, I believe Alex at ML has gotten the overlay to work on attached monitors too.

[Harry Simpson]

Ted

Where'd you find the color bar charts for the 5D Mk2? I found some but when transfering to the CF card and tying to view in the camera I see a graphic ? mark where the color bar should be. I shoot RAW is there a RAW color bar chart to be had?

[Ted Ramasola]

Try to download this file I'm attaching.
Right click and "save image as"
Its the same file I place on my CF cards.
I use it on my 7D so I'm not yet sure if its gonna work on a 5D. I think it will.

Use a card reader to transfer it into the folder containing images in your cf card.

Say if it still won't open so I can email it to you.

Ted

[G. Lee Gordon]

Why don't you use a light meter for brightness and the Lilliput for critical focus?

[Peter Phelan]

Originally Posted by G. Lee Gordon

Why don't you use a light meter for brightness and the Lilliput for critical focus?

Yes this is what I was wondering; and running tests, to get everything as close as possible to a set standard. A light meter is also a good tool for quickly checking lighting ratios on a set.

As a long time commercial photog, for video I am finding myself going back to the kind of workflow I used years ago shooting medium and large format transparencies, where we had to "get it right" in camera all the time. As a result, having sold my Minolta colour temperature meter, (thinking I would not need it after the move to digital capture) I have also been looking at getting a new one once more!

Peter

[Josh Bass]

I got into video learning exactly the opposite. . .that a reliable monitor negated any need for the meter. What you see is what you get.

[Jon Fairhurst]

The problem with monitors (unless they have histograms, false colors and other tools) is that the light conditions around them aren't consistent. How it looks in sunlight, in the dark, and under various lighting and glare makes even the best monitor somewhat untrustworthy. The exception would be a monitor in consistent studio conditions - after you get to know that monitor.

[Josh Bass]

To a degree, but a shade can always be built, or a giant flag tent, or just putting a big piece of duvetyne (sp?) over the monitor and ducking your head under it.

[Peter Phelan]

All a bit reminiscent of my days shooting Polaroids and then not really wanting to show them to the client or art director on the set because .... "yes but don't worry, it'll look better than that on the trannie." In the same way, a reasonably well set up monitor can can give you a pretty good idea of what the final result will look like; it's all down to getting to know one's gear, running tests and "experience".

Peter