The lonely quest for slow motion... at DVinfo.net

Kris Koster · February 9th, 2011, 06:58 PM

Although I realise the 7D is better for slow motion than the 5D mark II as the 7D can shoot 60fps (albeit at 720p), it isn't that I haven't tried to push the 5D2 as far as it will go to achieve reasonable slow mo.

I'd give my left leg to have the 5D2 do at least the same as the 7D. If the 5D3 won't do it either, I'd be asking serious questions why not. 1080p at 60fps or greater for the 5D3 would be sweet.

I think I've maximised my use of interpolation software with slowing the 5D2 as much as it is possible. I've found Twixtor to be the best having tried all the rest. But my quest for decent HQ slow motion (high frame speed) for any prosumer camera is a lonely one. No vendor out there seems to be interested. Is the demand for it really that small?

I own the Casio EX F1 camera but I rarely use it. The fact I can't interchange the lens coupled with the low bit rate doesn't give me results I'm happy with. I find myself scouring the internet looking for news about any potential model coming out that will give me decent slow motion for under $5000, but they don't exist.

Unless there's a camera out there I don't know about?

Ben Denham · February 9th, 2011, 10:21 PM

This is surely a case of the limits of the current hardware. Put simply, 60 fps at 1080p is twice as much data as the current 5D chip has to deal with. Add to this the fact that these cameras are having to do whatever they can to downsize each frame from a 21 mega pixel sensor and you've got a very hefty demand on the "CPU" of the camera.

I'm sure when both the hardware and resizing algorithms are up to speed we will get 60fps at 1080.

Personally I'm with Stu Maschwitz.

Prolost - Blog - Ha ha very funny Canon now get back towork

I would like to see more development effort put into getting a true, moire-free, 1080p image in the 24-30 fps range (i.e. better downsizing algorithms for the info coming off the sensor) than 4k or any 60fps mode.

If they can also do 60fps 1080p then great, but hopefully it won't be at the expense of making the 5D iii a truly solid HD camera.

Dave Jervis · February 10th, 2011, 12:03 AM

Kris, I know it's a completely different proposition, but a Panasonic SD700 would give you 1080p at 60fps at a decent quality and price..... (1/4" chips, built-in lens of course, consumer level kit..... but surprisingly good 60p pictures for a very reasonable amount of money). Could you use with a DOF adapter....?
dave

Gilles Debord · February 10th, 2011, 02:04 AM

Hi

For around 20000€ you have the Olympus I-speed TR 1280x1024 @ 2000fps. That's the best ratio Quality/Price for the moment, if you look for HD there is nothing cheapest.

Kris Koster · February 10th, 2011, 06:05 AM

Gilles,

That's nice, and if it was a quarter of that price, I'd buy it for sure.

Still, what about DOF on that camera? Interchangable lenses?

Dave, yes... it's not bad and I've seen some test footage with it. But yes, fixed lens, no DOF. I'm not in love with the picture it produces I must say. I sold my Letus Elite a few months ago! I used to use it on my XH A1, don't think I'll be going down that route again anytime soon!

Gilles Debord · February 10th, 2011, 06:43 AM

Sensor is 34 mm diagonal you can calculate DOF with that. Intergangable lens Yes, Nikon F- mount and sure, other like Canon with an adapter.
But for the moment i'm just look for it, i think to try it this first semester.
Have look at PDF i my first message.

Jeff Troiano · February 10th, 2011, 08:53 AM

Of course there is the New Panasonic AG-AF100/101, does over and under cranking up to 60p in 1080, if I'm not mistaken in 2 frame increments, from 12fps to 60fps. (I believe) Interchangeable lenses, micro 4/3rds chip. For less then 5k usa.

Kris Koster · February 10th, 2011, 11:19 AM

Wow Jeff,

That camera completely escaped me. I'm reviewing it now and from what I've seen so far, it looks awesome.

I may finally be done with DSLRs! ;-)

Kris Koster · February 10th, 2011, 07:33 PM

Well having spent most of the day reading reviews on the camera and looking at footage, I may not be 'done' with DSLRs just yet, but I think I may just buy this camera, if only for the over cranking at 1080p.

The fact there are no discernable moire or aliasing issues is a huge plus. It's a headache dealing with those on the 5D2.

Whilst it may not be a DSLR killer, if I were Canon I would be planning my next move for the 5D3 very carefully! Would be great to see Canon's response to this camera.

I'm holding out waiting for Alan Robert's tests on it though - He says they'll be released in a few days.

-Kris

Jeff Troiano · February 10th, 2011, 08:14 PM

If I were buying tomorrow (I'm still on the fence), but think I'd be leaning to the panasonic. But since it's going to be another 4 months before I have my funds for a camera purchase, I'll be looking to see what might be coming out to rival the af100. I'm interested in a camera for indie film making, and from what I've read, it's great in a controlled light environment. I would love the Sony pmk(forget the number), but that's 13k, without lenses. If I had that kind of money to spend, I'd hope for a Red Epic-S. Not sure what ill be getting, but like everyone else, I want the big sensor in a video camera package, and right now AF100 is it. I to am hoping by the time I buy, canon will have a model out like this.

Tony Davies-Patrick · February 12th, 2011, 06:28 AM

The new Canon concept camera might be an option in the future for slow-motion and 4K rez:

February 9th, 2011, 06:58 PM	#1
Kris Koster Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Gatwick, UK Posts: 185	The lonely quest for slow motion... Although I realise the 7D is better for slow motion than the 5D mark II as the 7D can shoot 60fps (albeit at 720p), it isn't that I haven't tried to push the 5D2 as far as it will go to achieve reasonable slow mo. I'd give my left leg to have the 5D2 do at least the same as the 7D. If the 5D3 won't do it either, I'd be asking serious questions why not. 1080p at 60fps or greater for the 5D3 would be sweet. I think I've maximised my use of interpolation software with slowing the 5D2 as much as it is possible. I've found Twixtor to be the best having tried all the rest. But my quest for decent HQ slow motion (high frame speed) for any prosumer camera is a lonely one. No vendor out there seems to be interested. Is the demand for it really that small? I own the Casio EX F1 camera but I rarely use it. The fact I can't interchange the lens coupled with the low bit rate doesn't give me results I'm happy with. I find myself scouring the internet looking for news about any potential model coming out that will give me decent slow motion for under $5000, but they don't exist. Unless there's a camera out there I don't know about? __________________ http://kriskoster.com Last edited by Kris Koster; February 10th, 2011 at 05:15 AM. Reason: corrected 60p to 60fps, tired fingers

February 10th, 2011, 12:03 AM	#3
Dave Jervis New Boot Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: London UK Posts: 22	..slightly off topic.... Kris, I know it's a completely different proposition, but a Panasonic SD700 would give you 1080p at 60fps at a decent quality and price..... (1/4" chips, built-in lens of course, consumer level kit..... but surprisingly good 60p pictures for a very reasonable amount of money). Could you use with a DOF adapter....? dave Last edited by Dave Jervis; February 10th, 2011 at 02:01 AM. Reason: ..slight rephrasing....

February 10th, 2011, 06:05 AM	#5
Kris Koster Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Gatwick, UK Posts: 185	Gilles, That's nice, and if it was a quarter of that price, I'd buy it for sure. Still, what about DOF on that camera? Interchangable lenses? Dave, yes... it's not bad and I've seen some test footage with it. But yes, fixed lens, no DOF. I'm not in love with the picture it produces I must say. I sold my Letus Elite a few months ago! I used to use it on my XH A1, don't think I'll be going down that route again anytime soon! __________________ http://kriskoster.com

February 10th, 2011, 06:43 AM	#6
Gilles Debord Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: France Posts: 152	Sensor is 34 mm diagonal you can calculate DOF with that. Intergangable lens Yes, Nikon F- mount and sure, other like Canon with an adapter. But for the moment i'm just look for it, i think to try it this first semester. Have look at PDF i my first message. __________________ Gilles Debord http://www.wwvideo.tv

February 10th, 2011, 11:19 AM	#8
Kris Koster Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Gatwick, UK Posts: 185	Wow Jeff, That camera completely escaped me. I'm reviewing it now and from what I've seen so far, it looks awesome. I may finally be done with DSLRs! ;-) __________________ http://kriskoster.com

February 9th, 2011, 10:21 PM	#2
Ben Denham Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: NSW Australia Posts: 149	This is surely a case of the limits of the current hardware. Put simply, 60 fps at 1080p is twice as much data as the current 5D chip has to deal with. Add to this the fact that these cameras are having to do whatever they can to downsize each frame from a 21 mega pixel sensor and you've got a very hefty demand on the "CPU" of the camera. I'm sure when both the hardware and resizing algorithms are up to speed we will get 60fps at 1080. Personally I'm with Stu Maschwitz. Prolost - Blog - Ha ha very funny Canon now get back towork I would like to see more development effort put into getting a true, moire-free, 1080p image in the 24-30 fps range (i.e. better downsizing algorithms for the info coming off the sensor) than 4k or any 60fps mode. If they can also do 60fps 1080p then great, but hopefully it won't be at the expense of making the 5D iii a truly solid HD camera.

February 10th, 2011, 08:53 AM	#7
Jeff Troiano Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: Nashville TN Posts: 480	Of course there is the New Panasonic AG-AF100/101, does over and under cranking up to 60p in 1080, if I'm not mistaken in 2 frame increments, from 12fps to 60fps. (I believe) Interchangeable lenses, micro 4/3rds chip. For less then 5k usa.

February 10th, 2011, 07:33 PM	#9
Kris Koster Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Gatwick, UK Posts: 185	Well having spent most of the day reading reviews on the camera and looking at footage, I may not be 'done' with DSLRs just yet, but I think I may just buy this camera, if only for the over cranking at 1080p. The fact there are no discernable moire or aliasing issues is a huge plus. It's a headache dealing with those on the 5D2. Whilst it may not be a DSLR killer, if I were Canon I would be planning my next move for the 5D3 very carefully! Would be great to see Canon's response to this camera. I'm holding out waiting for Alan Robert's tests on it though - He says they'll be released in a few days. -Kris __________________ http://kriskoster.com

February 10th, 2011, 08:14 PM	#10
Jeff Troiano Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: Nashville TN Posts: 480	If I were buying tomorrow (I'm still on the fence), but think I'd be leaning to the panasonic. But since it's going to be another 4 months before I have my funds for a camera purchase, I'll be looking to see what might be coming out to rival the af100. I'm interested in a camera for indie film making, and from what I've read, it's great in a controlled light environment. I would love the Sony pmk(forget the number), but that's 13k, without lenses. If I had that kind of money to spend, I'd hope for a Red Epic-S. Not sure what ill be getting, but like everyone else, I want the big sensor in a video camera package, and right now AF100 is it. I to am hoping by the time I buy, canon will have a model out like this.

February 12th, 2011, 06:28 AM	#11
Tony Davies-Patrick Trustee Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Worldwide Posts: 1,589	The new Canon concept camera might be an option in the future for slow-motion and 4K rez: Attached Thumbnails __________________ www.WILDCARP.com www.NIKON.me.uk