3.5mm stereo mic input from XLR at DVinfo.net

Dave Beaty · May 30th, 2010, 08:05 AM

I've done some testing with uncompressed audio from our Trams and compared those waveforms to the recordings with the MkII with very favorable results...we've been using the MkII as the primary sound recording device with a backup recording running for now.

We are using a PSC M3 mixer with excellent pre-amps, but the unit only has XLR outputs and mini 3.5mm AUX line level outputs. We tried using these AUX outputs but the impedance is wrong driving the MKII way to hot.

My question is, if I want to feed two channels of mic level audio to the MKII, can I wire a dual XLR to stereo mini unbalanced with a common ground? Or will this cause problems?

Markertek has this cable but they indicate both XLR's must be connected...

TecNec Cables & Connectors TecNec Dual XLR Mic to 3.5mm Stereo Connection Cable Mini to Mini Cables at Markertek.com

I know the Beachtek units have solved this problem, but do I really need another piece of hardware in front of my great field mixer which already has mic outs?

Dave B

Mitchell Lewis · May 30th, 2010, 08:09 AM

Is the MKII's 3.5mm audio input tip-ring-sleeve or just tip-ring? I'm guessing it's just tip ring. So in that case you won't be able to feed it a stereo signal.

Also, does your mixer output XLR line level or mic level? Line level would obviously be too hot.

Dave Beaty · May 30th, 2010, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mitchell Lewis

Is the MKII's 3.5mm audio input tip-ring-sleeve or just tip-ring? I'm guessing it's just tip ring. So in that case you won't be able to feed it a stereo signal.

Also, does your mixer output XLR line level or mic level? Line level would obviously be too hot.

Hi Mitchell, I believe the MkII input is ring tip sleeve stereo input. The Beachteks allow you to send two mics unmixed AFAIK.

Our PCS M3 has XLR outputs with Line/Mic selection, but the 3.5mm outputs are Line only.

Dave

Mitchell Lewis · May 30th, 2010, 10:47 AM

Got it. Too bad the TecNec cable is so expensive, but I'm guessing it would work.

Dave Beaty · May 30th, 2010, 03:13 PM

I think I have found a cheaper solution. They also offer a 3.5mm line to 3.5mm mic attenuator cable for DSLR's. this has a 25db pad in the connector to allow the line level output of our PSC M3 mixer AUX sends to work as a stereo mic send. This also works with the outputs of the Zoom recorder.

I'll let you know once I test it

In-House Manufacturing Zoom H4N 3.5mm Line to Mic 3.5mm Male with 25dB Attenuation 9 Inch DSLR Cable DSLR Audio Cables at Markertek.com

Mitchell Lewis · May 30th, 2010, 07:39 PM

Nice find!! I've been very happy with all the custom cables I've got from Markertek.

Dan Chung · May 31st, 2010, 04:12 AM

Hi guys, if you look back over the forums you will see that I originally developed the 5dmkII PAD cable idea with Pinknoise systems in the UK. DVEstore also sell PAD cables. You may want to consider either of these as they have right angle connectors at the camera end to make life easier.

Also if you are using a mixer Pinknoise also do a dual XLR to 3.5 inch minijack cable with PAD in as well, you may be able to source something similar in the USA.

One more thing, if your mixer is feeding line level output -25db may be a little too much since we got manual audio control on the 5DmkII. I am currently working with -20db in some applications.

check out this video

Dan

Mitchell Lewis · May 31st, 2010, 07:04 AM

Wow! That sounds great!

David W. Taylor · May 31st, 2010, 07:23 AM

I routinely use the 3.5mm input fed via a stereo output from my Edirol R-44 recorder. The Edirol outputs are at the usual 'domestic level of -10dB and by using Magic Lantern set with gains of 0db digital and 0db analogue I get a unity gain recording on the 5DMk2.
However the 5D2 suffers from a reasonable amount of cross talk doing this, so if I'm recording an FX mic on track one and a radio mic on track two I'll get cross talk on the camera recording. Often that's OK, but the camera track is only meant to be for 'sync' usually anyway.

David T
Focal Planes

Dan Chung · June 1st, 2010, 03:32 AM

David,

Agreed, if you use Magic Lantern then -10dB is pretty perfect. I'd also agree about the cross talk issue. I'd also agree that using a separate recorder is best for optimal results but then for a lot of my purposes the camera track with a mixer is more than acceptable.

Dan

Peer Landa · June 1st, 2010, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Chung

One more thing, if your mixer is feeding line level output -25db may be a little too much since we got manual audio control on the 5DmkII. I am currently working with -20db in some applications.

Well, I got a couple of those -10dB padders:
M-AUDIO - MicroTrack 10dB Pad - Passive In-line 10dB Pad for the MicroTrack

-- peer

Paul R Johnson · June 1st, 2010, 10:16 AM

Not being 5d user, could you confirm that the left and right inputs have leakage from the left to the right bad enough to mean they cannot be used in this way. A little crosstalk from two unbalanced lines in one cable is one thing but if the actual camera leaks this badly, that's a pretty serious flaw. Has anyone isolated this to a camera 'design flaw' or is it just cable crosstalk?

Chris Barcellos · June 1st, 2010, 11:12 AM

Cross talk was a problem I experience in experimenting with tone generation in individual tracks. I found that it occured with certain set ups and not others, and I concluded it was not in camera, but at other sources like my mixer set ups. Has anyone else tested this specifically.

Dan Chung · June 2nd, 2010, 06:05 AM

Peer,
those M-audio -10dB pads are a nice find. Might have to get a couple.

Chris,
I think you are right, I've had cross talk when feeding tone with some equipment and not others, l'm pretty sure the cross talk is not in the camera but probably need to test more again now that I have a Juicedlink DT454. This test using a DXA-6 from a year ago had no cross talk, whilst a DXA2s I also have did.

Dan

May 30th, 2010, 08:05 AM	#1
Dave Beaty Major Player Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Ft. Myers, FL Posts: 240	3.5mm stereo mic input from XLR I've done some testing with uncompressed audio from our Trams and compared those waveforms to the recordings with the MkII with very favorable results...we've been using the MkII as the primary sound recording device with a backup recording running for now. We are using a PSC M3 mixer with excellent pre-amps, but the unit only has XLR outputs and mini 3.5mm AUX line level outputs. We tried using these AUX outputs but the impedance is wrong driving the MKII way to hot. My question is, if I want to feed two channels of mic level audio to the MKII, can I wire a dual XLR to stereo mini unbalanced with a common ground? Or will this cause problems? Markertek has this cable but they indicate both XLR's must be connected... TecNec Cables & Connectors TecNec Dual XLR Mic to 3.5mm Stereo Connection Cable Mini to Mini Cables at Markertek.com I know the Beachtek units have solved this problem, but do I really need another piece of hardware in front of my great field mixer which already has mic outs? Dave B

May 30th, 2010, 08:09 AM	#2
Mitchell Lewis Trustee Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Kennewick, WA Posts: 1,124	Is the MKII's 3.5mm audio input tip-ring-sleeve or just tip-ring? I'm guessing it's just tip ring. So in that case you won't be able to feed it a stereo signal. Also, does your mixer output XLR line level or mic level? Line level would obviously be too hot. __________________ Sony EX3, Canon 5D MkII, Chrosziel Matte Box, Sachtler tripod, Steadicam Flyer, Mac Pro, Apple/Adobe software - 20 years as a local videographer/editor

May 30th, 2010, 10:47 AM	#4
Mitchell Lewis Trustee Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Kennewick, WA Posts: 1,124	Got it. Too bad the TecNec cable is so expensive, but I'm guessing it would work. __________________ Sony EX3, Canon 5D MkII, Chrosziel Matte Box, Sachtler tripod, Steadicam Flyer, Mac Pro, Apple/Adobe software - 20 years as a local videographer/editor

May 30th, 2010, 03:13 PM	#5
Dave Beaty Major Player Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Ft. Myers, FL Posts: 240	I think I have found a cheaper solution. They also offer a 3.5mm line to 3.5mm mic attenuator cable for DSLR's. this has a 25db pad in the connector to allow the line level output of our PSC M3 mixer AUX sends to work as a stereo mic send. This also works with the outputs of the Zoom recorder. I'll let you know once I test it In-House Manufacturing Zoom H4N 3.5mm Line to Mic 3.5mm Male with 25dB Attenuation 9 Inch DSLR Cable DSLR Audio Cables at Markertek.com __________________ www.jodagimbal.com - www.youtube.com/dreamtimeent and www.youtube.com/dbeaty2 Facebook www.facebook.com/dreamtimeentertainment

May 30th, 2010, 07:39 PM	#6
Mitchell Lewis Trustee Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Kennewick, WA Posts: 1,124	Nice find!! I've been very happy with all the custom cables I've got from Markertek. __________________ Sony EX3, Canon 5D MkII, Chrosziel Matte Box, Sachtler tripod, Steadicam Flyer, Mac Pro, Apple/Adobe software - 20 years as a local videographer/editor

May 31st, 2010, 04:12 AM	#7
Dan Chung Major Player Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Beijing Posts: 665	Hi guys, if you look back over the forums you will see that I originally developed the 5dmkII PAD cable idea with Pinknoise systems in the UK. DVEstore also sell PAD cables. You may want to consider either of these as they have right angle connectors at the camera end to make life easier. Also if you are using a mixer Pinknoise also do a dual XLR to 3.5 inch minijack cable with PAD in as well, you may be able to source something similar in the USA. One more thing, if your mixer is feeding line level output -25db may be a little too much since we got manual audio control on the 5DmkII. I am currently working with -20db in some applications. check out this video 5DmkII firmware 2.0.3 audio test on Vimeo Dan

May 31st, 2010, 07:04 AM	#8
Mitchell Lewis Trustee Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Kennewick, WA Posts: 1,124	Wow! That sounds great! __________________ Sony EX3, Canon 5D MkII, Chrosziel Matte Box, Sachtler tripod, Steadicam Flyer, Mac Pro, Apple/Adobe software - 20 years as a local videographer/editor

May 31st, 2010, 07:23 AM	#9
David W. Taylor Regular Crew Join Date: May 2009 Location: Pinewood Film Studios, Bucks, United Kingdom Posts: 80	I routinely use the 3.5mm input fed via a stereo output from my Edirol R-44 recorder. The Edirol outputs are at the usual 'domestic level of -10dB and by using Magic Lantern set with gains of 0db digital and 0db analogue I get a unity gain recording on the 5DMk2. However the 5D2 suffers from a reasonable amount of cross talk doing this, so if I'm recording an FX mic on track one and a radio mic on track two I'll get cross talk on the camera recording. Often that's OK, but the camera track is only meant to be for 'sync' usually anyway. David T Focal Planes

June 1st, 2010, 03:32 AM	#10
Dan Chung Major Player Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Beijing Posts: 665	David, Agreed, if you use Magic Lantern then -10dB is pretty perfect. I'd also agree about the cross talk issue. I'd also agree that using a separate recorder is best for optimal results but then for a lot of my purposes the camera track with a mixer is more than acceptable. Dan

June 1st, 2010, 10:16 AM	#12
Paul R Johnson Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Lowestoft - UK Posts: 4,045	Not being 5d user, could you confirm that the left and right inputs have leakage from the left to the right bad enough to mean they cannot be used in this way. A little crosstalk from two unbalanced lines in one cable is one thing but if the actual camera leaks this badly, that's a pretty serious flaw. Has anyone isolated this to a camera 'design flaw' or is it just cable crosstalk?

June 1st, 2010, 11:12 AM	#13
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	Cross talk was a problem I experience in experimenting with tone generation in individual tracks. I found that it occured with certain set ups and not others, and I concluded it was not in camera, but at other sources like my mixer set ups. Has anyone else tested this specifically. __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

June 2nd, 2010, 06:05 AM	#14
Dan Chung Major Player Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Beijing Posts: 665	Peer, those M-audio -10dB pads are a nice find. Might have to get a couple. Chris, I think you are right, I've had cross talk when feeding tone with some equipment and not others, l'm pretty sure the cross talk is not in the camera but probably need to test more again now that I have a Juicedlink DT454. This test using a DXA-6 from a year ago had no cross talk, whilst a DXA2s I also have did. 5dmkII with 1khz tone real world demo on Vimeo Dan