Canon announces free 24p / 25p update for EOS 5D Mk. II

Chris Barcellos · February 2nd, 2010, 07:37 PM

I'll up you one more. If Canon upgraded firmware tomorrow so that it did not do line skipping so we could avoid the ravages of aliasing and moire, along with those upgrades, I would pay another $ 2000.

Glen Elliott · February 3rd, 2010, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Binder

I'm with you on that one, but the real question is whether it'll have 60p or not?

According to an article on another forum it, unfortunately, will not.

Chris Hurd · February 3rd, 2010, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Binder

...the real question is whether it'll have 60p or not?

Here's what it boils down to... I'm pretty sure that the 60p capability is directly tied to the dual Digic processors in the 7D and the 1D Mk. IV, and since the 5D Mk. II has only a single Digic processor, I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't get the 60p frame rates.

Bill Binder · February 3rd, 2010, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glen Elliott

According to an article on another forum it, unfortunately, will not.

Wasn't that nothing but speculation really? I didn't get any sense they knew anything.

Bill Binder · February 3rd, 2010, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

Here's what it boils down to... I'm pretty sure that the 60p capability is directly tied to the dual Digic processors in the 7D and the 1D Mk. IV, and since the 5D Mk. II has only a single Digic processor, I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't get the 60p frame rates.

I've heard this repeated many times, and I'm inclined to believe it actually, but...

Just curious where the "pretty sure... tied to dual... processors" part is coming from?

What makes you think so?

I've never really heard anyone articulate anything on that beyond speculation. Is there more to it than that?

Douglas Joseph · February 3rd, 2010, 12:39 PM

I do not have magic lantern... but I'm strongly considering it. I have some reservation.

So, say I have magic lantern on my 5d, then the 24p firmware update comes out... what happens? Would I still be able to install the 24p firmware update, even though I have magic lantern?

If anybody can help me out here, that'd be sweeeet.

Nate Morse · February 3rd, 2010, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Douglas Joseph

I do not have magic lantern... but I'm strongly considering it. I have some reservation.

So, say I have magic lantern on my 5d, then the 24p firmware update comes out... what happens? Would I still be able to install the 24p firmware update, even though I have magic lantern?

If anybody can help me out here, that'd be sweeeet.

Magic Lantern is run in-memory when the camera is turned on. So, using ML does not affect your ability to upgrade once the new firmware comes out.

However, if you do upgrade to the latest firmware, it's likely that you will no longer be able to use Magic Lantern (at least for a while). I'm pretty sure they would have to modify Magic Lantern to work with a newer firmware.

Chris Barcellos · February 3rd, 2010, 07:05 PM

That is true. The current version of Magic Lantern only supports firmware version 1.1.0. (ML 1.16) There is work being done on ML 1.17 which will boot directly of the chip without need to go through a manual upgrade, but I am not sure anything will hit before Canons new firmware/

Jon Fairhurst · February 3rd, 2010, 11:51 PM

Yes, ML only works on 1.1.0 for now, but the day that 24p comes out, I'd bet that Tramm won't sleep until he's got it ported. I recently saw that Tramm had been busy with work, but his head is now back into the firmware. Hopefully, Canon will release 24p while Tramm is on a roll.

I think the information we have about 60p and two Digics is just conjecture. 720p60 and 1080p30 have the same datarate, so the encoder is not a likely bottleneck. The question in my mind is whether the 5D2 sensor can skip even more line/pixels than it does for 1080 in order to produce 720.

Sure, skipping more pixels for 720p is killer for the faster rate, but going the other way would be killer too. I'd love for Tramm to be able to window the sensor and not do any pixel skipping. That would give us a somewhat soft image with little or no aliasing. It would also turn my 200mm f/2.8 lens into a 600mm equivalent. It would pass just as much light as it does today, but with deeper focus than a 600/2.8 on full frame, due to the crop sensor.

I wouldn't always want the extreme crop, but it would have its applications.

Jim Froom · February 4th, 2010, 08:41 PM

I'm still hoping for the same frame rates as the 7D.

It makes sense and I'm keeping the fingers crossed based on 2 conversations with Canon about 2-3 weeks ago. I with tech support (who says it's his understanding that they will match) and the other with a person who works in sales and marketing for DSLR's at Canons head quarters in the U.S. He was referred to me by someone in Canon that I know. He also said he is expecting the 7D and 5D to have the same frame rates. Of course, both gave me the standard, we won't know for sure till it comes out.

The Panasonic GH1 doesn't have any dual processors and they have the same frame rates so I'm hoping the dual processors aren't a deal breaker or necessity.

I was hoping we'd something by now. Sure would like to know what's holding up the show.
It ould have been easier if they would have done it right the first time.

Tony Davies-Patrick · February 5th, 2010, 04:14 AM

It makes sense that Canon will try to match the frame rates offered by the 7D. Hopefully it is true.

Dom Stevenson · February 5th, 2010, 04:31 AM

Jim Froom

A Canon guy told me we'd see it at the end of January at a trade show before Xmas, so i'm not sure how reliable these folks are. I'm starting a major project in March and will be reluctantly swapping mine for a 7d if it hasn't turned up by then.

Fingers Crossed!

Christian Ionescu · February 5th, 2010, 05:17 AM

Are we going to have 120p too?

Peer Landa · February 5th, 2010, 05:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Christian Ionescu

Are we going to have 120p too?

Why settle for 120p when 2000p is cooler yet:
YouTube - Amazing Billiards in Super Slow Motion

-- peer

Christian Ionescu · February 5th, 2010, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peer Landa

Why settle for 120p when 2000p is cooler yet:
YouTube - Amazing Billiards in Super Slow Motion

-- peer

We can ask even higher: 1,400,000 FPS

as in

Phantom v710

which is illustrated here:
The Phantom High Speed Movie Gallery

Hope those links do not violate any rule of the site.

God bless us all!
Christian

February 2nd, 2010, 07:37 PM	#166
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	I'll up you one more. If Canon upgraded firmware tomorrow so that it did not do line skipping so we could avoid the ravages of aliasing and moire, along with those upgrades, I would pay another $ 2000. __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

February 3rd, 2010, 12:39 PM	#171
Douglas Joseph Major Player Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Zanesville OH Posts: 205	I do not have magic lantern... but I'm strongly considering it. I have some reservation. So, say I have magic lantern on my 5d, then the 24p firmware update comes out... what happens? Would I still be able to install the 24p firmware update, even though I have magic lantern? If anybody can help me out here, that'd be sweeeet. __________________ "Warriors... Come out to play..." www.importexporthd.com

February 3rd, 2010, 07:05 PM	#173
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	That is true. The current version of Magic Lantern only supports firmware version 1.1.0. (ML 1.16) There is work being done on ML 1.17 which will boot directly of the chip without need to go through a manual upgrade, but I am not sure anything will hit before Canons new firmware/ __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

February 3rd, 2010, 11:51 PM	#174
Jon Fairhurst Inner Circle Join Date: May 2006 Location: Camas, WA, USA Posts: 5,513	Yes, ML only works on 1.1.0 for now, but the day that 24p comes out, I'd bet that Tramm won't sleep until he's got it ported. I recently saw that Tramm had been busy with work, but his head is now back into the firmware. Hopefully, Canon will release 24p while Tramm is on a roll. I think the information we have about 60p and two Digics is just conjecture. 720p60 and 1080p30 have the same datarate, so the encoder is not a likely bottleneck. The question in my mind is whether the 5D2 sensor can skip even more line/pixels than it does for 1080 in order to produce 720. Sure, skipping more pixels for 720p is killer for the faster rate, but going the other way would be killer too. I'd love for Tramm to be able to window the sensor and not do any pixel skipping. That would give us a somewhat soft image with little or no aliasing. It would also turn my 200mm f/2.8 lens into a 600mm equivalent. It would pass just as much light as it does today, but with deeper focus than a 600/2.8 on full frame, due to the crop sensor. I wouldn't always want the extreme crop, but it would have its applications. __________________ Jon Fairhurst

February 5th, 2010, 04:14 AM	#176
Tony Davies-Patrick Trustee Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Worldwide Posts: 1,589	It makes sense that Canon will try to match the frame rates offered by the 7D. Hopefully it is true. __________________ www.WILDCARP.com www.NIKON.me.uk

February 4th, 2010, 08:41 PM	#175
Jim Froom Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Rochester, NY usa Posts: 75	I'm still hoping for the same frame rates as the 7D. It makes sense and I'm keeping the fingers crossed based on 2 conversations with Canon about 2-3 weeks ago. I with tech support (who says it's his understanding that they will match) and the other with a person who works in sales and marketing for DSLR's at Canons head quarters in the U.S. He was referred to me by someone in Canon that I know. He also said he is expecting the 7D and 5D to have the same frame rates. Of course, both gave me the standard, we won't know for sure till it comes out. The Panasonic GH1 doesn't have any dual processors and they have the same frame rates so I'm hoping the dual processors aren't a deal breaker or necessity. I was hoping we'd something by now. Sure would like to know what's holding up the show. It ould have been easier if they would have done it right the first time.

February 5th, 2010, 04:31 AM	#177
Dom Stevenson Major Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: London UK Posts: 430	Jim Froom A Canon guy told me we'd see it at the end of January at a trade show before Xmas, so i'm not sure how reliable these folks are. I'm starting a major project in March and will be reluctantly swapping mine for a 7d if it hasn't turned up by then. Fingers Crossed!

February 5th, 2010, 05:17 AM	#178
Christian Ionescu Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Bucuresti, Romania Posts: 41	Are we going to have 120p too?